Dustin Kesselberg's Beliefs - His Very Own Thread

[Beerina]

Let me ask you: What is worse? Getting religion taught to you so you can convert or burning in hell for all eternity?


Though choice, huh?

Not really.

Is a god who throws people into Hell for not believing in Him deserving of worship?

Is a god who throws people into Hell for not believing in Jesus deserving of worship?

John Lennon once suggested, "Imagine there's no Heaven". I can easily conceive of a superior reality without the mountain god Yahweh, where we die and all go to a nice little paradise. No having to jump through hoops in this life.

Wouldn't that be better than the standard Christian concept?

 

[noblecaboose]

Personally, I blame Myspace and MTV.

This does not answer my question. Elaborate please. Why do you think your philosphy is so weak that it can't compete with these modern fads? Why do you think it needs funding from the government? Give examples if you can.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Nice anecdote, but what I'm interested in more is your reasoning, not your spiritual feelings,

That rather misses the point. I suspect you know this, and that you are attempting to confuse the subjective and the objective as somehow unable to coexist.

DR

 

[Azure]

Up yours, Complexity. If Dustin posts some horsepockey, I'm going to challenge him. I don't care if that doesn't comport with your intentions for this thread or not.

Plus, theoretically, after he maximizes his assertions, when are we allowed to weigh in with our responses? Only in another thread? Then why the hell does this thread exist? Your whole premise in the OP of this thread sucks.

I agree.

I want to ask questions too.

 

[Azure]

Do I believe "Proof" exists for the existence of God? By definition Proof means evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth. In that case, Yes.

Ah, so we probably agree there.

We would also agree that there is no scientific evidence that God exists, right?

How about "Faith"? If faith is defined as belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion or belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc then it's very important.

Understandable.

 

[Azure]

Though I do believe the government should pay money to various churches to further Christianity.

We disagree there.

Do you believe in total seperation of church and state...and if not, why?

If the government uses their money to further Christianity...aren't they being biased in their approach to religion?

I mean, why not give money to the Buddhists...or the Islamic churches?

 

[Darth Rotor]

If the government uses their money to further Christianity...aren't they being biased in their approach to religion?

Yes. FWIW, and opening a small can of worms here as Devil's Advocate, the US Government is also biased against monarchical forms of government.

I mean, why not give money to the Buddhists...or the Islamic churches?

Do you really want an answer to that question?
Here is a short one:

The varied philosophical strands of thought that mixed and congealed into the American form of government grew, specifically, from a Western European cultural base that was informed, for about 1500 years, by Christian thought as a common point of reference. Islam and Bhuddism were and are not part of that baseline. It would be a cultural contradiction to fund Islamic and Bhuddist organs in a fundementally Western European cultural base. That doesn't make dumping American tax dollars into churches right, but it makes it more rational than funding a deliberate counter cultural influence with tax dollars. As it stands, the private sector approach to religious funding meets "the good enough" standard.

DR

 

[D'rok]

I was a 'Strong Atheist' basically in relation to the God of Abraham. I denied any concept of such a God. Though my denial was based on faulty logic and emotion (as I suspect any atheists is), I accepted that I was a sinner and I asked for forgiveness from Jesus Christ. When I asked for forgiveness I actually meant it and it was not an act, at that moment I suddenly had a revelation and at that moment everything became clear to me, I was without doubt and felt invigorated through the grace of Jesus Christ.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism

It's funny how rigid thinkers never change their style of thought, just the content. Dustin has found himself an unassailable certainty that is, for him, more emotionally satisfying than his previous unassailable certainty. The irony makes me chuckle.

 

[Complexity]

I've gotten what I wanted from this thread - Dustin actually made some statements rather than just ask questions.

I doubt we'll get anything more coherent out of him.

Have fun getting him to chew on his foot.

 

[Azure]

I've gotten what I wanted from this thread - Dustin actually made some statements rather than just ask questions.

I doubt we'll get anything more coherent out of him.

Have fun getting him to chew on his foot.

Bye.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I accepted that I was a sinner and I asked for forgiveness from Jesus Christ. When I asked for forgiveness I actually meant it and it was not an act, at that moment I suddenly had a revelation and at that moment everything became clear to me, I was without doubt and felt invigorated through the grace of Jesus Christ.

Exactly how does Jesus forgive you for your sins ? Why is it necessary ?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Baptists, Evangelicals and that's it. Any protestant church. I'm not so sure about catholics though. Definitely not Muslims or Mormons. Not Jewish either unless they emphasize the importance of Jesus as lord and savior.

So you favor the establishment of a state religion?

 

[rikzilla]

Not a choice at all.

If your God would leave people to burn in hell for all eternity simply because they had never heard of it, then it deserves nothing but contempt.

Exactly right Pixy...but here's the way I like to say it:

Dustin, it's your religion, your belief, and your hell...you burn in it.

Personally I'm into Epicurean philosophy...your evil god simply has no power to frighten me.

-z

 

[Foster Zygote]

Abducting? Are soup kitchens "abducting" people? Is inviting them to a voluntary bible lesson after they eat "brainwashing" them?

All of the above. Teaching the doctrines of the bible. Helping people who are vulnerable and then converting them.

So that's why the Catholics, Jews, Buddhist, Muslims, Hindus, Mormons etc. don't get any money from the government under your plan. You wouldn't want anyone who's hungry and vulnerable to go to a soup kitchen and be converted by the wrong religion, would you? Wouldn't it be best just to outlaw all those "wrong" faiths?

 

[Complexity]

Let me ask you: What is worse? Getting religion taught to you so you can convert or burning in hell for all eternity?

Worse: Getting religion taught to you so you can convert.

(false dichotomy, by the way)

 

[rikzilla]

Not really.

Is a god who throws people into Hell for not believing in Him deserving of worship?

Is a god who throws people into Hell for not believing in Jesus deserving of worship?

John Lennon once suggested, "Imagine there's no Heaven". I can easily conceive of a superior reality without the mountain god Yahweh, where we die and all go to a nice little paradise. No having to jump through hoops in this life.

Wouldn't that be better than the standard Christian concept?

C'mon Beerina...

How are you going to control, coerce, and steal from the masses with a dogma like that? How could you delineate a "Holy Land" and how would you motivate "Holy Warriors" to go and chop heads in a "Holy War"???

It's no wonder that all Epicurus had was a garden full of educated and gentle friends. Still the "Christians" felt his teaching to be a dangerous heresy, and wiped out the Epicureans. "God forbid" that someone might find a philosophical religion of actual peace to be superior to one of torture and death, and the promise of torture after death...

-z

 

[Foster Zygote]

Let me ask you: What is worse? Getting religion taught to you so you can convert or burning in hell for all eternity?


Though choice, huh?

Sure, if those were the only choices. But there are many alternatives. Reincarnation and extinction to name a couple more.

 

[calebprime]

Let me ask you: What is worse? Getting religion taught to you so you can convert or burning in hell for all eternity?


Though choice, huh?

Dustin keeps surprising me today.

Ok, master o' logic: Write me a summary of how we get to hell-fire in logical steps. I promise I won't respond by nitpicking and asking for definitions.

You can start from hell-fire and work backwards.

step 543: ouch! owww!
step 542: it's really getting hot in here.
step 541: can't I take off my shirt?
step 540: is this it? this place sucks!
step 539: Ok, mr. big-shot St. Peter, whatever!
step 538: wow, I'm dead, my brain is liquified, but I'm still thinking!
step 537: urrrghhh.
step 536: c'mon, lighten up!
step 535: really, we were just talking, put down that knife.
step 534: wait, I think I hear something.
step 533: oh, baby. baby. baby. yeah, baby.
step 532: would you like another beer?


Except can you do it with Logic?

 

[PixyMisa]

Exactly right Pixy...but here's the way I like to say it:

Dustin, it's your religion, your belief, and your hell...you burn in it.

Indeed.

 

[Bob Klase]

Not really.

Is a god who throws people into Hell for not believing in Him deserving of worship?

Is a god who throws people into Hell for not believing in Jesus deserving of worship?

Is a god who throws people into hell for all eternity (for any reason) a god deserving of worship? What is accomplished by eternity in hell with no possiblity of redemption? Revenge for not believing a fairy tale with no evidence? Revenge for a sin supposedly committed long before you were born? Or just sadistic pleasure and the torture of creatures that you created just because you can do it?

Even for a Hitler or a Stalin, wouldn't say one billion years in hell for each victim suffice as punishment? After 6 million billion years in hell, give him a chance to apologize or something.

Any god who runs the hell of xians is nothing but a sadistic, evil SOB.