Dumbest/Most Cowardly woman in Mexico Update

[BobTheCoward]

I di not see this come through here. I thought it would be interesting for comment

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/05/23/mexico.female.police.chief/?hpt=T2

The idealistic criminology student's rise to police chief in one of Mexico's most violent areas thrust Valles Garcia into the international spotlight. News reporters from around the world came to Praxedis, a town of only 3,000 people, to tell the story of the woman who dreamed to make a difference.

She called her husband and told him to grab their 1-year-old son. Four months after headlines around the world heralded her as the "bravest woman in Mexico," Valles Garcia plotted a hasty escape across a remote border crossing in West Texas.

 

[WildCat]

I di not see this come through here.

It did, over 2 months ago: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189193&page=2

 

[keale]

I personally know over a dozen people that have been affected by the violence in Mexico its everywhere. I know some of my friends relatives did exactly what this woman did take off straight for the US border and never look back. They recieved threats to their life if they didnt pay money so they left with the shirts on their backs and nothing else. I know of others who werent as fortunate.

There is no distinction between the local goverment and the Cartels they are one and the same. I suspect the wars in the middle east have distracted us from this looming problem but at some point we will have to take this problem more seriously. Its like Pablo Escobar multiplied by 10000

 

[fuelair]

Hope we don't have to (like maybe Mexican Army/Police grow a pair), but I would sure get a warm fuzzy feeling from seeing the cartels all shot up and lying dead in the streets (not just in Mexico, but.....).

 

[marplots]

Does this mean the second bravest woman in Mexico got a promotion?

 

[geni]

Hope we don't have to (like maybe Mexican Army/Police grow a pair),

The army is doing okey and the police are at least slightly starting to sort themselves out (mostly because there is no longer any safety in siding with one of the drug gangs). Problem is that the army is effectively trying to fight a guerrilla war against an opposition who is well funded, well connected, and knows what it's doing.

but I would sure get a warm fuzzy feeling from seeing the cartels all shot up and lying dead in the streets (not just in Mexico, but.....).

That would just result in a power vacume that would result in even more violence as fresh groups moved in to fill it.

Unless drugs are legalised the best you can hope for is a cartel that is prepared to co-exist peacefuly with the goverment which a the moment realisticaly means that the gulf cartel manages to defeate los zetas.

 

[McHrozni]

Unless drugs are legalised the best you can hope for is a cartel that is prepared to co-exist peacefuly with the goverment which a the moment realisticaly means that the gulf cartel manages to defeate los zetas.

And if drugs are legalized, the best you can hope for is that the cartels won't try to come up with other sources of income too vigorusly.

You can also hope all who would want to be engaged in organized crime will suddenly die of a heart attack. Chances of that happening are much better, I assure you.

I really hate it when people offer a ridicolusly simple silver bullet and ignore all the reasons it can't be one.

McHrozni

 

[commandlinegamer]

Hoping this thread title is ironic.

It's one thing to stand up to someone who's threatening you, but why put your family at risk also?

 

[geni]

And if drugs are legalized, the best you can hope for is that the cartels won't try to come up with other sources of income too vigorusly.

The reality is that once you take drugs out of the picture the remaining options (prostitution, protection rackets and illegal gambling) are not nearly as profitable. That means smaller gangs who are less able to challange the forces of the state.

You can also hope all who would want to be engaged in organized crime will suddenly die of a heart attack. Chances of that happening are much better, I assure you.

There are not very many people who want to engage in organised crime per se they just want the money and the social status. Take the drugs away and those incentives go away.

I really hate it when people offer a ridicolusly simple silver bullet and ignore all the reasons it can't be one.

Outside of prohibition and before the rise of the drug gangs how many US gangs actualy made a worthwhile profit? One. The mafia. that tends to result in gangs being rather self limiting.

 

[keale]

The reality is that once you take drugs out of the picture the remaining options (prostitution, protection rackets and illegal gambling) are not nearly as profitable. That means smaller gangs who are less able to challange the forces of the state.



There are not very many people who want to engage in organised crime per se they just want the money and the social status. Take the drugs away and those incentives go away.



Outside of prohibition and before the rise of the drug gangs how many US gangs actualy made a worthwhile profit? One. The mafia. that tends to result in gangs being rather self limiting.

Its almost funny how we never learn from history. Prohibition was a colossal failure and led to organized crime and violence the likes of which we had never seen prior to prohibition.

 

[WildCat]

Its almost funny how we never learn from history. Prohibition was a colossal failure and led to organized crime and violence the likes of which we had never seen prior to prohibition.

But the c-h-i-l-d-r-e-n! The chhhhhiiiiiillllllddddrrreeeeeeeeeeeeen!

 

[McHrozni]

The reality is that once you take drugs out of the picture the remaining options (prostitution, protection rackets and illegal gambling) are not nearly as profitable. That means smaller gangs who are less able to challange the forces of the state.

There are not very many people who want to engage in organised crime per se they just want the money and the social status. Take the drugs away and those incentives go away.

Outside of prohibition and before the rise of the drug gangs how many US gangs actualy made a worthwhile profit? One. The mafia. that tends to result in gangs being rather self limiting.

If your postulates hold, the organized crime would essentially die out with the end of prohibition, or shortly thereafter. This did not happen. Please explain why it would be different this time.

As I said, you might as well hope they all die of a heart attack. Contrary to what you hope to achieve, this scenario is at least possible.

We might be slightly derailing the discussion, plus this was debated months ago ... new thread, PMs?

McHrozni

 

[geni]

If your postulates hold, the organized crime would essentially die out with the end of prohibition, or shortly thereafter.

No I said it would be reduced. There are those other income streams but you don't have a speakeasy on every street anymore. And organised did appear to be in decline until new wave of drug gangs arrived.

This did not happen. Please explain why it would be different this time.

Well gambling has a much larger legal market these days and I don't think mexico has the communities who for whatever reason can't go to the police which makes the protection racket harder.

As I said, you might as well hope they all die of a heart attack. Contrary to what you hope to achieve, this scenario is at least possible.

Not really. One of the interesting factors with Los zetas is their ability to replaced skilled senior people with less skilled but more violent younger groups.

 

[McHrozni]

No I said it would be reduced. There are those other income streams but you don't have a speakeasy on every street anymore. And organised did appear to be in decline until new wave of drug gangs arrived.

The current drug war is a result of reduced income streams, due to higher competition. This would implicate that reducing income streams further would make things worse, not better as you postulate.

Not really. One of the interesting factors with Los zetas is their ability to replaced skilled senior people with less skilled but more violent younger groups.

Which part of the word "everyone" don't you understand?

McHrozni

 

[JAStewart]

Fair play to her. I don't have any inkling to be tortured and killed either. Since when do we berate people for running away from murderers?

It's not like SHE said she was the bravest chick in the world, right? Just the media.

 

[stokes234]

Fair play to her. I don't have any inkling to be tortured and killed either. Since when do we berate people for running away from murderers?

It's not like SHE said she was the bravest chick in the world, right? Just the media.

Agreed. Weird thread title.

 

[IDB87]

Unless drugs are legalised the best you can hope for is a cartel that is prepared to co-exist peacefuly with the goverment which a the moment realisticaly means that the gulf cartel manages to defeate los zetas.

Look, the cartels are already competing with the government for territory - your brilliant idea is to then have that government start selling the very drugs the cartels are trafficking in hopes the cartels will just go away?

Is your solution a car in every driveway, and a line of coke in every house?

How is the government going to effectively marginalize the cartels by selling coke legally?

*ETA

Thread title is wrong. Smartest/most cowardly woman is Mexico update. Anyone in any position of power over there has a death wish or their own personal army.

 

[LukeB]

Is your solution a car in every driveway, and a line of coke in every house?

Just the households that wish to partake of it. What buisness is it of yours what narcotics someone wishes to use in their own home?

 

[keale]

The current drug war is a result of reduced income streams, due to higher competition. This would implicate that reducing income streams further would make things worse, not better as you postulate.



Which part of the word "everyone" don't you understand?

McHrozni

Oh it will get worse before it gets better make no mistake. The problem is very very large but with that being said they are DRUG cartels. If we can reduce the income derived from drugs you reduce the overall threat. Its clear to a blind man that the current course is a monumental failure and has resulted in multiple cartels bringing the war right up to our borders and its spilling over.

If all drugs disappeared today the cartels wont dissapear they will look for other forms of income just like the Mafia did here in the US also less income will reduce their power just like what happened here in the US.

Its not like decriminalization is a new fangled idea its been implemented in other countries with success Theres no reason it cant be done here other than people who oppose change to continue on with failed policy.

 

[keale]

Look, the cartels are already competing with the government for territory - your brilliant idea is to then have that government start selling the very drugs the cartels are trafficking in hopes the cartels will just go away?

Is your solution a car in every driveway, and a line of coke in every house?

How is the government going to effectively marginalize the cartels by selling coke legally?

*ETA

Thread title is wrong. Smartest/most cowardly woman is Mexico update. Anyone in any position of power over there has a death wish or their own personal army.

Decriminalization is very different from the goverment selling drugs.