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Merged Due process in the US

theprestige said:
So let's be clear: You agree that the defendant is innocent until proven guilty, in a court of law, according to due process.

But in the court of your own imagination, this defendant is already guilty, due to the trustworthiness of the government agency that's bringing charges against him.

Hopefully that's as clear for you as it is for me. If not, let me know, and I'll copy pasta it for you.
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Yes according to the law he is innocent until proven guilty by a jury of his peers.

However like with all other cases of political or social significance we all have the right to make determinations before a jury has come to a verdict.

We do it all the time it is not unusual.

You guys should stop acting like people assuming that someone is guilty or someone is innocent before a verdict is in is somehow unusual or strange.

Personally it is been my understanding for many years that federal indictments are usually pretty Rock solid they prefer not to go to trial they usually expect a plea bargain.
 
Darat said:
Then why are other people who transport illegal people across the USA I.e. bus drivers not charged with human trafficking? You said that they aren’t, when I asked you why you said it was because the passengers have a ticket, now you are saying it isn’t that they have a ticket that stops it being human trafficking, so what is it?
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Why on earth would you want to organize society this way?

Surely even UKian justice recognizes the moral difference between a coach full of ticketed passengers and a van full of sex slaves.
 
angrysoba said:
Is your main complaint that people are being hypocritical?

That people who say they are against rape are somehow defending someone who is accused of rape because they don’t want them sent to a dungeon in El Salvador for the rest of their life without any due process.

But somehow it is okay for Trump not to face consequences for rape because his supporters don’t believe women anyway so they are not hypocrites?
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No, I'm saying it's basically the same thing, only difference is Trump has has his day in court
 
theprestige said:
Why on earth would you want to organize society this way?

Surely even UKian justice recognizes the moral difference between a coach full of ticketed passengers and a van full of sex slaves.
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Maybe not. Maybe in the United Kingdom all bus drivers and train operators and plane pilots are required to validate the citizenship and immigration status of every single passenger. Every time they go anywhere.

:)
 
Hercules56 said:
Yes according to the law he is innocent until proven guilty by a jury of his peers.

However like with all other cases of political or social significance we all have the right to make determinations before a jury has come to a verdict.

We do it all the time it is not unusual.

You guys should stop acting like people assuming that someone is guilty or someone is innocent before a verdict is in is somehow unusual or strange.

Personally it is been my understanding for many years that federal indictments are usually pretty Rock solid they prefer not to go to trial they usually expect a plea bargain.
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“Other people do it too” isn’t a justification for credulously accepting what you’re told. Most people that do what you’re describing do it based on independent evidence, which you are glaringly lacking.
 
johnny karate said:
You understand that the people you are claiming have unassailable credibility are also the people you acknowledge are engaged in illegality, correct?
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The Grand Jury that indicted Garcia are the same people that deported him to the Salvadorian prison? Surely you jest.
 
A conpiracy of one.
Abrego Garcia is alleged to have participated in more than 100 such trips, according to the indictment. Among those allegedly transported were members of the Salvadoran gang MS-13, sources familiar with the investigation said.
Abrego Garcia is the only member of the alleged conspiracy charged in the indictment.

Attorney General Pam Bondi, at a Friday afternoon press conference, thanked Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele for "agreeing to return Abrego Garcia to the United States."
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abcnews.go.com

Kilmar Abrego Garcia brought back to US, appears in court on charges of smuggling migrants

Kilmar Abrego Garcia appeared in a Tennessee courtroom Friday, hours after he was brought back to the U.S. to face charges of transporting undocumented migrants.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
 
Hercules56 said:
However like with all other cases of political or social significance we all have the right to make determinations before a jury has come to a verdict.
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You mean, we all have the right to speculate wildly and spout off nonsense. Yes. We do all have that right.

But let's not try him in the Court of Public Opinion before he gets his day in an actual court, yeah?
 
ponderingturtle said:
Of course4 they don't that would be the due process you are against. Just skip the trial and go right to punishment that is what you are advocating.
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I support Due Process for all persons on US soil. As per the US Constitution.

Please stop lying about my beliefs.
 
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