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Merged Due process in the US

Mojo said:
If they have been snatched off the street by the ICE and locked up to await deportation?
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If they contend to be a citizen or refugee, they should be able to speak to a judge, if ICE refuses to listen to them. ICE refusing to listen to someone claiming to be a citizen should be a felony.
 
Hercules56 said:
If they contend to be a citizen or refugee, they should be able to speak to a judge, if ICE refuses to listen to them. ICE refusing to listen to someone claiming to be a citizen should be a felony.
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That would be a nice world to live in. What do you suggest people do who have been caught up in a real world where deportees are denied access to a judge, denied access to legal counsel, and summarily imprisoned; and in which ICE acts with functional impunity?
 
Resume said:
Ask those U.S. citizens that received self-deport letters, or Jose Hermosillo, who was detained by ice for 10 days.
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They should sue in federal court and get compensation for their pain and suffering.

ICE needs to fix their procedures. If someone claims to be a citizen, wrongfully detained, ICE needs to respect that and address it.
 
JayUtah said:
That would be a nice world to live in. What do you suggest people do who have been caught up in a real world where deportees are denied access to a judge, denied access to legal counsel, and summarily imprisoned; and in which ICE acts with functional impunity?
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Congress needs to fix ICE so if this happens again, there are correct procedures to deal with it. And if ICE acts like fascists there are punitive measures in place.
 
Hercules56 said:
They should sue in federal court and get compensation for their pain and suffering.
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Sovereign immunity precludes this.

Hercules56 said:
ICE needs to fix their procedures. If someone claims to be a citizen, wrongfully detained, ICE needs to respect that and address it.
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Who is going to compel them to do that, and how?
 
JayUtah said:
Sovereign immunity precludes this.


Who is going to compel them to do that, and how?
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This corrupt administration doesn't give two ◊◊◊◊◊ about court orders or rule of law, and obviously, due process. There seems to be no mechanism by which to force them to comply. Contitutional crises are back thataway, and a large segment of U.S. voters don't give a ◊◊◊◊.
 
Resume said:
This corrupt administration doesn't give two ◊◊◊◊◊ about court orders or rule of law, and obviously, due process. There seems to be no mechanism by which to force them to comply. Contitutional crises are back thataway, and a large segment of U.S. voters don't give a ◊◊◊◊.
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Officials under Trump can be held in contempt of court and put in jail and fined, if held in contempt.
 
Hercules56 said:
The courts.
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Yes, Kilmar Garcia is back in the U.S., and Trump turned those planes around when ordered to. This corrupt administration is arresting judges, trialballooning to see how many, and how far they can go; the maga maniacs in the trumpublic party are demonizing judges and the judicial process, calling them traitors and traitorous. It's only going to get worse.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Officials under Trump can be held in contempt of court and put in jail and fined, if held in contempt.
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Yes, I'd love to see that. But that's never going to happen; who's gonna arrest them, Pam Blondi's DoJ? Kash Patel's FBI? Why the ◊◊◊◊ do you think Trump (and Stephan Miller) picked these sycophantic supplicants?
 
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Resume said:
Yes, I'd love to see that. But that's never going to happen; who's gonna arrest them, Pam Blondi's DoJ? Kash Patel's FBI? Why the ◊◊◊◊ do you think Trump (and Steven Miller) picked these sycophantic supplicants?
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Lets see how it all plays out.
 
For many years, I've carried my passport when travelling in the USA. It's the final word in IDs, and I've never suffered a speck of trouble from presenting it.

How about offering valid US passports, for a reasonable* price, to foreigners who wish to live here? Donnie Trumpolini has said he'd sell immediate citizenship to the rich, so the general principle has been endorsed by the All Highest. No ICEstapo would challenge a 100% valid passport that checks through the system, even if presented to him by the swarthiest unibrow speaking broken English!


* What's reasonable? Let's say $10,000US, or equivalent in bullion or high-end wristwatches. Heroin? Casino chips? Three nights with Chiquita and Rosa? Hell, I'm not the guy selling them, let the free market roll!
 
Hercules56 said:
You forget the fact that non-citizens have NO RIGHT to be in this country.

We let them be here cause we are kind and generous.

They can be deported for ANY reason, or no reason at all.

However, if you have an arrest and indictment record, we dont have to be nice to you and let you stay here for years pending your immigration court date. We can speed up your court date and take into consideration your arrest record when deciding whether or not to send you home.
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Except that according to your standards we do not let them be here because we are kind and generous. We let them here because we wish to appear so, but reserve the right to be lethally unkind when we decide to.

So far, though, it's presumed that persons in this country have a right to due process even if that due process sends them out later. Your blanket statement is that any non-citizen, including for example a person who is legally in this country and has lived here for many years, can be deported for no reason at all without recourse. And an arrest and indictment record has nothing do do with a criminal record, especially now when arrest is arbitrary and random. We have instances, for example, of legal immigrants falsely arrested owing to police error. According to your standards, those arrests should lead to instant deportation without recourse. And I might remind you that at the moment our administration is dramatically and openly equating "sending you home" with condemning you without trial to life imprisonment in a foreign country that is not your home.

When you mistakenly conflate arrest with verdict, and assert that any non-citizen can be deported for any or no reason, you have effectively said that any person even suspected of being a non-citizen, whether convicted of a crime or not, can be deported without recourse, since you have obviated the need for an immigration court date, and that includes the possibility even of disputing the charge that you are an alien. You say ICE needs to respect citizenship and so forth, but have explicitly supported a system in which their victims may have no opportunity to challenge them.

Whatever the details of what you think ought to be done and how, I believe you are making a serious error, owing to the current trends in this country. The right to due process is being eaten away by an administration flamboyantly, arrogantly challenging the very core of all our rights. And already it's bleeding over to the right to privacy, to security, and maybe even to life itself. We complacently sit by as long as it happens to them and not us, until too late we find out that we've been them all along. The self-righteous wrath of our rapist-in-chief has already started to show collateral damage, and that damage will soon enough be more than just collateral. And it starts here. It starts when we compromise our principles - when you say we all have rights, but not you.

When you wait to see how it all plays out, it's already played out.
 
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