• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged Due process in the US

Trump now actively looking into deporting American prisoners to El Salvador. This would cross the rubicon.
 
plague311 said:
Right, that was 2019, not when he was illegally arrested and deported. Why is this so hard for you to understand? He was an apprentice sheet worker. How can that be made more clear to you?
Click to expand...
I never said he wasn't. All I know is in 2019 he was working illegally in the USA soliciting day work at Home Depot.
 
JayUtah said:
Again we have to compare Elon Musk, who also worked unlawfully in the United States. If having once been an illegal worker taints one's character forever and dissolves Constitutional guarantees, why are people praising Musk and denouncing Abrego Garcia?
Click to expand...
Or for that matter, Melania Trump. Not to mention the "chain migration" of the rest of her family. I hear the weather in El Salvador is nice and warm this time of year.
 
Hercules56 said:
I never said he wasn't. All I know is in 2019 he was working illegally in the USA soliciting day work at Home Depot.
Click to expand...

Ok, great. That has exactly ◊◊◊◊ all to do with the fact that he wasn't working illegally in the US, and he wasn't in the US illegally when he was deported. Right? So why are we talking about it? Why are you bringing it up? Do you have any idea at all as to why I'm bringing up the fact he was an apprentice sheet metal worker? I made the important part stand out because it's the main reason why I know he wasn't working illegally, under the table, or anything similar. Take your time.
 
I wonder if the fascism apologists in here are equally okay with American citizens being picked up and disappeared on trumped-up (pun not intended) charges by other dysfunctional authoritarian regimes.
 
plague311 said:
Ok, great. That has exactly ◊◊◊◊ all to do with the fact that he wasn't working illegally in the US, and he wasn't in the US illegally when he was deported. Right? So why are we talking about it? Why are you bringing it up? Do you have any idea at all as to why I'm bringing up the fact he was an apprentice sheet metal worker? I made the important part stand out because it's the main reason why I know he wasn't working illegally, under the table, or anything similar. Take your time.
Click to expand...
I didn't bring it up in this thread.
 
JayUtah said:
Police and prosecutors have been playing stupid tricks like this forever. They go before juries and declare that whatever dress, grooming, or aesthetic the accused displays is either overtly or secretly somehow evidence of his criminal associations. This has been especially true of tattoos. And most of this has been straight-up invented by the prosecution. They're unabashedly doing this in Abregro Garcia's case because it has worked so well before in criminal cases that have heretofore received less attention.
Click to expand...
See the example of a British bloke whose clock tattoo (date and time of his daughter's birth) was used as an example of a gang tattoo.
 
Hercules56 said:
I didn't bring it up in this thread.
Click to expand...
You are trying very hard to portray Abrego Garcia as a person of unlawful demeanor and questionable character in support of an argument that the U.S. does not have to take any special steps to remedy the effects of their unlawful kidnapping and rendition. You keep returning to his arrest in 2019 which resulted in his release without any charges being filed, without bothering to consider what happened between 2019 and 2025.
 
Hercules56 said:
I never said he wasn't. All I know is in 2019 he was working illegally in the USA soliciting day work at Home Depot.
Click to expand...
So what? You keep bringing this up as if it justified what happened. What he did in 2019 might be relevant in a hearing, but it's not relevant to whether he should be illegally shipped out of the country in shackles. People who shoot up schools and bomb office buildings and eat their neighbors are treated more fairly. And though we shake our heads and hold our noses when we see it, it's a good thing they are. Fascism is cheap and streamlined, and the secret police are efficient, but some of us prefer democracy even if it's a little sloppy at times.
 
JayUtah said:
You are trying very hard to portray Abrego Garcia as a person of unlawful demeanor and questionable character in support of an argument that the U.S. does not have to take any special steps to remedy the effects of their unlawful kidnapping and rendition. You keep returning to his arrest in 2019 which resulted in his release without any charges being filed, without bothering to consider what happened between 2019 and 2025.
Click to expand...


I actually have no interest in discussing this issue in this new merged thread.

So for that reason, "I'm Out".

:)
 
Hercules56 said:
I actually have no interest in discussing this issue in this new merged thread.
Click to expand...
Disingenuous.

Hercules56 said:
So for that reason, "I'm Out".
Click to expand...
And we'll never hear you argue again that Abrego Garcia's 2019 arrest has anything to do with entitlement for relief for his present circumstance.
 
JayUtah said:
I think you mean the Alien and Sedition Acts, correct? Indeed, admittedly bad laws badly enforced. I assume the recent examples you allude to are the treatment of Germans and Japanese during the world wars? Also badly handled—and sadly given legal cover in the latter case by Korematsu v. U.S. I agree: not okay, and ostensibly nothing new. What might be considered new in this case is the stretch in claiming that we're at war with Venezuela in the character of Tren de Aragua.
Click to expand...
Actually, I was referring to the fact, that originally the Constitution did not protect the rights of large groups of people, and continued to exclude some of those people until relatively recently.
 
Hercules56 said:
I actually have no interest in discussing this issue in this new merged thread.

So for that reason, "I'm Out".

:)
Click to expand...
I agree that the newly merged thread makes some exchanges a little difficult, but the subject is still due process, and you're still on record as being at best equivocal about whether due process was warranted in Garcia's case, and at worst supporting his being shuffled off in shackles without recourse and without any semblance of due process by a new breed of secret police, despite previous promises to the contrary. I (and others too, I think) find that position deplorable, but if you wish to leave it there, so be it.
 
There's a young lady who lives with her parents a couple blocks from me. I don't know the family's immigration status but the young lady hangs a Palestinian flag from her bedroom window and her car windows are covered with slogans like Free Gaza and ◊◊◊◊ Netanyahu. I fear she will be renditioned one day.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
Actually, I was referring to the fact, that originally the Constitution did not protect the rights of large groups of people, and continued to exclude some of those people until relatively recently.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is also true, and it is also true that we are supposed to have abandoned such practices forever, because they were inhumane and evil and retrograde to the idea of democracy. If there's any relevance to that observation it is how wrong it would be to return to those dark times, and how inimical to the values we have come to hold.
 
Don't expect any Due Process

JD says "What process is due is a function of "our resources"
and to ask the people weeping over the lack of due process what precisely they propose for dealing with Biden's millions and millions of illegals?

JDVance
@JDVance
Consider that Joe Biden allowed approximately 20 million illegal aliens into our country. This placed extraordinary burdens on our country--our schools, hospitals, housing, and other essential services were overwhelmed. On top of that, many of these illegal aliens committed violent crimes, or facilitated fentanyl and sex trafficking. That is the situation we inherited.

The American people elected the Trump administration to solve this problem. The President has successfully stopped the inflow of illegal aliens, and now we must deport the people who came here illegally.

To say the administration must observe "due process" is to beg the question: what process is due is a function of our resources, the public interest, the status of the accused, the proposed punishment, and so many other factors. To put it in concrete terms, imposing the death penalty on an American citizen requires more legal process than deporting an illegal alien to their country of origin.

When the media and the far left obsess over an MS-13 gang member and demand that he be returned to the United States for a third" deportation hearing, what they're really saying is they want the vast majority of illegal aliens to stay here permanently.

Here's a useful test: ask the people weeping over the lack of due process what precisely they propose for dealing with Biden's millions and millions of illegals. And with reasonable resource and administrative judge constraints, does their solution allow us to deport at least a few million people per year?

If the answer is no, they've given their game away. They don't want border security. They don't want us to deport the people who've come into our country illegally. They want to accomplish through fake legal process what they failed to accomplish politically:
The ratification of Biden's illegal migrant invasion.
President Trump and I will not stand fori t.
Click to expand...
 
Also it seems by electing Donald the American People agree that 'illegals' don't get due process.

JD Vance
@JDVance

Again, you're not even addressing the issue. Biden overwhelmed the system with illegal migration. Is your proposed solution to give a jury trial to all 20 million illegal aliens (more if you count those already here)?

And of course, our very robust jury trial system produces errors. So I'm not "OK with deporting innocent people" any more than I'm "OK with sentencing innocent people." What I am OK with is the reality that any human system will produce errors. Further, I accept the actual tradeoff: between not enforcing the law and enforcing the law. And I choose the latter despite the inevitable errors.
You are hiding behind "due process" while ignoring that your actual solution means the ratification of a Biden border crisis that was rejected at the ballot box.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom