• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged Due process in the US

Leavitt lies about Abrego Garcia: "He is a foreign terrorist and criminal MS-13 gang member ... shame on Senator Chris Van Hollen and the entire Democrat Party who wasted Easter Sunday going on every TV show in the country to advocate for the return of an illegal criminal gang

 
Leavitt lies about Abrego Garcia: "He is a foreign terrorist and criminal MS-13 gang member ... shame on Senator Chris Van Hollen and the entire Democrat Party who wasted Easter Sunday going on every TV show in the country to advocate for the return of an illegal criminal gang

I'm real curious what terrorist attack they think he committed.
 
Tying those tattoos to MS-13 is a stretch that would make most gymnasts jealous.
It's only a stretch if truth and facts as term have meaning, which they don't anymore. They could've shown him with a Coca-cola can and superimposed "MS13" over 'Coke' and the cult would've lapped it up. 'Well I I be bigly damned, I had no idea those MS13 folks used Coca-Cola cans as a symbol, thank goodness we have King Dump!'
 
It's only a stretch if truth and facts as term have meaning, which they don't anymore. They could've shown him with a Coca-cola can and superimposed "MS13" over 'Coke' and the cult would've lapped it up. 'Well I I be bigly damned, I had no idea those MS13 folks used Coca-Cola cans as a symbol, thank goodness we have King Dump!'
Almost everything coming out of this administration is a outright lie, from tariffs bringing in billions, to Ukraine starting the war, to Leavitt calling Garcia a terrorist. This isn't the Trump administration, it's the Gaslight administration, and before some bothsiders chime in . . . their just ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ wrong.

Also too, Leavitt makes me long for Sean Spicer.
 
It's only a stretch if truth and facts as term have meaning, which they don't anymore. They could've shown him with a Coca-cola can and superimposed "MS13" over 'Coke' and the cult would've lapped it up. 'Well I I be bigly damned, I had no idea those MS13 folks used Coca-Cola cans as a symbol, thank goodness we have King Dump!'

Undoubtedly. As someone upthread alluded to, gangsters aren't well-known for subtlety and wordplay. Most gangsters also don't call weed "marijuana".
 
Tying those tattoos to MS-13 is a stretch that would make most gymnasts jealous.
I think his gang affiliation or lack thereof is irrelevant to the issue of due process which is what is at stake here, but I personally don't find it much of a stretch particularly when you take it in conjunction with other evidence, such as as the tattoos signifiying "hear no evil, see no evil.." also mentioned in the police report, the devil's horn tattoo (supposedly only high level gang members get one) on his leg, the fact that a rival gang wants him dead, the unnamed informant's testimony, the verified fact that his wife covered up his tattoos in her go fund me page, association with other gang members etc. Some evidence, but it aint up to me to decide, it's up to a judge or court to decide, and that is the problem, he wasn't given that opportunity to defend himself.
 
I think his gang affiliation or lack thereof is irrelevant to the issue of due process which is what is at stake here, but I personally don't find it much of a stretch particularly when you take it in conjunction with other evidence, such as as the tattoos signifiying "hear no evil, see no evil.." also mentioned in the police report, the devil's horn tattoo (supposedly only high level gang members get one) on his leg, the fact that a rival gang wants him dead, the unnamed informant's testimony, the verified fact that his wife covered up his tattoos in her go fund me page, association with other gang members etc. Some evidence, but it aint up to me to decide, it's up to a judge or court to decide, and that is the problem, he wasn't given that opportunity to defend himself.
There seem to be some facts, evidence, and testimony there that haven't been tested in court.

Which, as you say, is the point.
 
I think his gang affiliation or lack thereof is irrelevant to the issue of due process which is what is at stake here, but I personally don't find it much of a stretch particularly when you take it in conjunction with other evidence, such as as the tattoos signifiying "hear no evil, see no evil.." also mentioned in the police report, the devil's horn tattoo (supposedly only high level gang members get one) on his leg, the fact that a rival gang wants him dead, the unnamed informant's testimony, the verified fact that his wife covered up his tattoos in her go fund me page, association with other gang members etc. Some evidence, but it aint up to me to decide, it's up to a judge or court to decide, and that is the problem, he wasn't given that opportunity to defend himself.

All of those things you stated can just as easily have mundane explanations and they kind of make less sense when taken as a whole.
He has no issue tattooing a big devil horn on his leg signifying he's a high level gang member but doesn't just tattoo MS-13 somewhere on his person, like a large portion of the other gang members we've seen? Rather he uses a form of code to signify he's in the gang?

Some of this stuff I'll perhaps need your explanation on like the significance of the "hear no evil, see no evil" tattoo, what does that mean? I did just a brief google images search and it appears to be an extremely popular tattoo. I hadn't heard that a rival gang wanted him dead, but you've mentioned it twice now. Do you have a link to that?

The wife covering up his tattoos for a gofundme is pretty ho-hum, if it happened. I haven't read anything confirming that but, again, I'll await your sources. Was his "association with other gang members" ever substantiated to anything more than him being part of a group loitering outside of Home Depot for work? Something he hadn't done since he got permission to work in the US and got a job as an apprentice?

It sounds like you're taking a lot of loosely, at best, based circumstantial evidence and using that as if it were fact. I'm definitely not seeing it that way and ICE repeatedly stated they had nothing other than the gang field sheet, his clothes and the informant.
 
Last edited:
All of those things you stated can just as easily have mundane explanations and they kind of make less sense when taken as a whole.
He has no issue tattooing a big devil horn on his leg signifying he's a high level gang member but doesn't just tattoo MS-13 somewhere on his person, like a large portion of the other gang members we've seen? Rather he uses a form of code to signify he's in the gang?

Some of this stuff I'll perhaps need your explanation on like the significance of the "hear no evil, see no evil" tattoo, what does that mean? I did just a brief google images search and it appears to be an extremely popular tattoo. I hadn't heard that a rival gang wanted him dead, but you've mentioned it twice now. Do you have a link to that?

The wife covering up his tattoos for a gofundme is pretty ho-hum, if it happened. I haven't read anything confirming that but, again, I'll await your sources. Was his "association with other gang members" ever substantiated to anything more than him being part of a group loitering outside of Home Depot for work? Something he hadn't done since he got permission to work in the US and got a job as an apprentice?

It sounds like you're taking a lot of loosely, at best, based circumstantial evidence and using that as if it were fact. I'm definitely not seeing it that way and ICE repeatedly stated they had nothing other than the gang field sheet, his clothes and the informant.
I don't want to fully litigate the issue here cause I don't really care, as I said his affiliation is irrelevant to me. I just think portraying his finger tattoos as analogous to a 'coke can' or similar is silly, as a skeptic I am extremely aware that you can associate symbols with a lot of things, but the code referenced (Marijuana, Sonrisa, I=1, Craneo=3d letter C, along with the three holes, also an MS-13 symbol) is at least plausible to me, it's not an absurd idea. I am not going to source my other references cause they are splattered all over the internet, as the last comment points out, google is your friend (BBC, CBS, Newsweek, etc etc) To me--and again, this is only my take on it--it makes more plausible, reasonable sense that Barrio 18, the gang that threatened to kill him in El Salvador, (and this fact is not in contention) would want him dead because he is a member of a rival gang (MS-13) and not because (as his family claims) the gang was extorting money from their business and was threatening to kill Garcia if they did not pay up. What would prevent the gang from threatening some other family member?? Why just Abrego Garcia? That doesn't add up, IMO. But again--It's not up to me to determine the facts.
 
My recollection is that a gang was extorting/threatening his family, and that is why he came to the United States. EDT, I see that stanfr has addressed this issue, but I am willing to speculate in response. Perhaps the family as a whole could not leave, but they felt getting one family member out of the country was good on its own.
 
Last edited:
I don't want to fully litigate the issue here cause I don't really care, as I said his affiliation is irrelevant to me. I just think portraying his finger tattoos as analogous to a 'coke can' or similar is silly, as a skeptic I am extremely aware that you can associate symbols with a lot of things, but the code referenced (Marijuana, Sonrisa, I=1, Craneo=3d letter C, along with the three holes, also an MS-13 symbol) is at least plausible to me, it's not an absurd idea. I am not going to source my other references cause they are splattered all over the internet, as the last comment points out, google is your friend (BBC, CBS, Newsweek, etc etc) To me--and again, this is only my take on it--it makes more plausible, reasonable sense that Barrio 18, the gang that threatened to kill him in El Salvador, (and this fact is not in contention) would want him dead because he is a member of a rival gang (MS-13) and not because (as his family claims) the gang was extorting money from their business and was threatening to kill Garcia if they did not pay up. What would prevent the gang from threatening some other family member?? Why just Abrego Garcia? That doesn't add up, IMO. But again--It's not up to me to determine the facts.
His affiliation is irrelevant to you, but you still want to bring it up.
 
His affiliation is irrelevant to you, but you still want to bring it up.
Oh good grief, I only bring it up in response to various people saying it is absolutely ridiculous to assert that he is a gang member. It isn't, there is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence, and the standard of proof is not "beyond a reasonable doubt" here. It becomes relevant at a hearing (or whatever process) that determines whether the evidence is sufficient to deport him. We haven't gotten there yet--which is why his gang affiliation is irrelevant to me until we get to that point! So let's get there, shall we? Oh wait, the administration doesn't care about due process...
 
Oh good grief, I only bring it up in response to various people saying it is absolutely ridiculous to assert that he is a gang member. It isn't, there is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence, and the standard of proof is not "beyond a reasonable doubt" here. It becomes relevant at a hearing (or whatever process) that determines whether the evidence is sufficient to deport him. We haven't gotten there yet--which is why his gang affiliation is irrelevant to me until we get to that point! So let's get there, shall we? Oh wait, the administration doesn't care about due process...
Exactly, it becomes relevant when due process is followed.

And that's why due process matters.
 
Last edited:
Nice short video by Tizzy Ent (self described as "goth Beau" on one occasion) on this

Will check it out. I've been looking for YouTube personalities to keep me updated on the Dump situation. I followed Belle of the Ranch (formerly Beau of the Fifth Column), but it's just not the same. I drop by from time to time to get an update on certain topics, and she's insightful and nuanced like Beau, but yeah, it still just isn't the same. Also, I hate to say this but I just found the community a bit tiresome in the long run, endlessly posting the same comments on every video and stubbornly insisting on taking every joke, pun, and piece of wordplay, irony, or sarcasm totally seriously. I suppose I might just being arrogant thinking that way, but I guess humor is just such a big part of me and my personality how I express myself that I just find it incredibly grating to have to restrain myself from using it (and it really can happen with any joke, like, Belle presented herself as a captain once and I said 'captain? I didn't know she was a pirate!' because Beau had a bit of a pirate theme on and off --to which someone replied, 'well, you'll have to ask her if she's a pirate, I thought she was in the air force but I could be wrong ofc').

Parkrose Permaculture is insightful but sometimes takes an eternity to get to the point, and I wonder if she intends her videos to be for people who just stumble across on their TikTok feeds her rather than regular viewers, because she'll often repeat herself even in consecutive videos (for example, she had this long backstory about her late mother who was great at working the stock market, and then she repeated the story just about word for word in the very next video).

The Enemy From Within doesn't have detailed knoweldge of things like law or politics, and fully admits as much, but has great insight into how communities work in rural America. Getting updates from him about seeing steadily fewer Drumpf flags when he's driving around redneck areas in his truck is always heartwarming.

There are the bigger ones like Meidas Touch but I find their over-edited vids and clickbait titles really off-putting.

Guess I'm in a bit of a cranky mood today. Think I'll make something to eat.
 
I just think portraying his finger tattoos as analogous to a 'coke can' or similar is silly, as a skeptic I am extremely aware that you can associate symbols with a lot of things, but the code referenced (Marijuana, Sonrisa, I=1, Craneo=3d letter C, along with the three holes, also an MS-13 symbol) is at least plausible to me, it's not an absurd idea.
No, it's definitely absurd. It's actually worse than "AC / DC = Anti-Christ / Devil's Child" or "KISS = Knights In Satan's Service." At least those don't have to distort symbols into letters.

I mean, really, if a cross is a letter, it's a t.
 

Back
Top Bottom