Dubai Address hotel fire

Seymour Butz said:
Just read and learn about a former Navy SEAL by the name of Richard Marcinko. He founded the SEALs.

He became the leader of an elite group that tested Navy security. He and his group boarded nuclear subs, Air Force One, and was able to get the launch codes for nuclear weapons. Granted, they were badasses to the extreme, but they showed that it's possible to bypass just about any security.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Marcinko
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Isn't that the guy who went to prison for fraud?
 
marplots said:
Isn't that the guy who went to prison for fraud?
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Yup,

something about charging the guv too much for hand grenades. he's open about it. doesn't deny it.

Nor does it detract from my main point - that he snuck into some supposedly pretty tightly secured areas.
 
Seymour Butz said:
.............But after a couple of hours, the temps inside the generator room would of been too high - how does a liquid cooled genset run when the air going through the radiator is hotter than it needs to cool itself? - for the generators to run.
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There's no evidence to show they ran after the collapse of the North Tower (for any length of time). The dust would have been a problem and was likely what shut them down.

Unlike over the road engines, these gensets have relatively small air filter setups. They don't run much and huge amounts of dust is not expected.
 
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DGM said:
There's no evidence to show they ran after the collapse of the North Tower (for any length of time). The dust would have been a problem and was likely what shut them down.

Unlike over the road engines, these gensets have relatively small air filter setups. They don't run much and huge amounts of dust is not expected.
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With all due respect.. do you know what sort of filters they had? How do you know whether they ran or not?
 
Seymour Butz said:
It also means that whoever placed these CD charges knew that 7 would be hit, and where, and how the fires were going to spread, and.... etc.

That scenario is wild speculation.
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Yes, and it's a point no Truther has ever managed to address, apart from Szamboti's delirious claims of arson teams moving in to set fires post WTC1 collapse.

"Wild" understates the speculation. "Insane" might be a better word.
 
JSanderO said:
With all due respect.. do you know what sort of filters they had? How do you know whether they ran or not?
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Barry Sanders gives us a good clue. When he says the "lights flickered" and the elevators no longer worked, that was when the South Tower collapsed. This would have started the generators on the 5th floor (all 11). There was also a report of smoke or fire shortly after that by a maintenance person (I forget his name), where he attributed the fire to the gensets sucking in dust. Sanders reported "all the lights went out" when he was at a point where the North Tower collapsed. Two of the gensets on the 5th floor were "base load". That is, they run the emergency lights (all but what would be battery).

As far as the filter setups goes, you can look up their capacity but my comment is based on personal experience. They just don't need to be large because the demand is typically small.
 
JSanderO said:
With all due respect.. do you know what sort of filters they had? How do you know whether they ran or not?
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Doesn't matter.

Even if they ran, it couldn't have been for long for the reasons I described.

You have zero counter to this.
 
DGM said:
For what it's worth..If they didn't run there would only be about 300 gal available on that floor (275 in day tank and about 25 in the headers). The transfer pumps will not run without the gensets.
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That tank was in the SE area of the building, and not around col 79.

1-9, page 105/797

"Since the New York City regulations had a limit of one day tank up to 1.25 m3 (275 gal) per floor, and
since the base generators located on the 5th floor already made use of a 1.25 m3 (275 gal) day tank, the
Salomon Brothers system used a pressurized fuel distribution system, in which the pumps continuously
circulated fuel whenever the generators were running. There was enough fuel (160 L, 35 gal) stored at
pressure in the valve rig and piping located on the ceiling near the northeast corner of the 5th floor (Figure
3-1) to start the diesel engines, which, in turn, would supply power to operate the circulating pump. The
maximum fuel flow was 5.3 L/s (70 gal/min) at 340 kPa (50 psi)."


No day tank around 79. supplied directly from the first floor tanks.
 
Seymour Butz said:
Yup,

something about charging the guv too much for hand grenades. he's open about it. doesn't deny it.

Nor does it detract from my main point - that he snuck into some supposedly pretty tightly secured areas.
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Did he carry in 20 tons of dynamite and strap it to building columns?
 
Seymour Butz said:
That tank was in the SE area of the building, and not around col 79.

1-9, page 105/797

"Since the New York City regulations had a limit of one day tank up to 1.25 m3 (275 gal) per floor, and
since the base generators located on the 5th floor already made use of a 1.25 m3 (275 gal) day tank, the
Salomon Brothers system used a pressurized fuel distribution system, in which the pumps continuously
circulated fuel whenever the generators were running. There was enough fuel (160 L, 35 gal) stored at
pressure in the valve rig and piping located on the ceiling near the northeast corner of the 5th floor (Figure
3-1) to start the diesel engines, which, in turn, would supply power to operate the circulating pump. The
maximum fuel flow was 5.3 L/s (70 gal/min) at 340 kPa (50 psi)."


No day tank around 79. supplied directly from the first floor tanks.
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This is true. I was being generous with the total amount (my guess on header capacity was off by 10 gallons :o). Fact is (as you pointed out) the transfer trusses were not in the same area. The "refrigerant" was likely just water as chillers are the norm in these buildings (everything is on the roof).
 
Seymour Butz said:
IMHO, this is perhaps the weakest argument against the CD theories.
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so that's a rousing 'I don't know' then.
I know I watched 2 planes slam into 2 buildings and as soon as they did, knew they wouldn't be standing by the end of the day because of them.
 
A word about the day tank on floor 5. It was a 275 gallon tank housed inside of a 550 gallon tank for containment. This was required and and installed during construction. I don't think there is any reason to doubt this.
 
DGM said:
A word about the day tank on floor 5. It was a 275 gallon tank housed inside of a 550 gallon tank for containment. This was required and and installed during construction. I don't think there is any reason to doubt this.
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Agreed
 
JSanderO said:
With all due respect..
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I'm not sure why you would have to grant me this respect but, Genset supply 102:

Day tank systems run on what is in the tank itself and are not automatically resupplied. It's assumed someone would come along and monitor the fuel supply and replenish the tank as needed.

Pressure header systems work a bit different but, don't need anymore oversight. They work on system pressure (supply and return). If you use flow (volume) restrictions along the system the pressure should remain the same over the whole system. If it's not the system shuts down. A leak will cause a pressure drop between the output and return.
 
DGM said:
I'm not sure why you would have to grant me this respect but, Genset supply 102:

Day tank systems run on what is in the tank itself and are not automatically resupplied. It's assumed someone would come along and monitor the fuel supply and replenish the tank as needed.

Pressure header systems work a bit different but, don't need anymore oversight. They work on system pressure (supply and return). If you use flow (volume) restrictions along the system the pressure should remain the same over the whole system. If it's not the system shuts down. A leak will cause a pressure drop between the output and return.
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I have never seen a plan of the equipment and tanks on the mechanical floors. If you have a link please post it! Are there any specs for the equipment? Thanks!
 
JSanderO said:
I have never seen a plan of the equipment and tanks on the mechanical floors. If you have a link please post it! Are there any specs for the equipment? Thanks!
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It's all contained within the NIST reports. I'm not at a place where I have the direct link at hand. The system setups I explained are very typical and are the norm. Like I said, this comes from my experience but, I see no reason this would be different for WTC7. It's a cheap and simple normal.

I'll give you the NIST pages tomorrow when I get home.
 
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