Drag Shows!!

[lionking]

You mean the opinion that also provided evidence that a large number of drag show attendees are women and that number is growing?

If you (whoever) don't like it don't go. If you want it to be illegal start a petition maybe.

Yes, I am sick of and offended by conservatives sticking their noses up everyones' asses year after year, decade after decade, with their feigned (or real) hysterics over the same type of ********. You are more offensive than any drag queen could ever be and more annoying than a broken record.

Just to be clear, are you calling me a conservative?

 

[lionking]

I think a lot of people are completely misconstruing the term 'instruct' but you hit the nail on the head. They aren't reading books about that stuff, nor are they instructing by giving lectures. They are instructing by existing, openly. By participating in public life the way they are, like everyone else. The instruction is 'this kind of flamboyant person exists and that's fine'.

There is always the similar 'respectability' argument about pride parades and the presence of the 'kink' people. People marching mostly naked. People marching in gimp outfits. But these people openly marching is what it took to get the level of acceptance of non-cishet existence there is today. Even some of the gay community will be critical of the 'flaming' gays, as if it's holding the movement back.

But people opposed to things like that, and things like drag, on the grounds that it makes the lgbtq community less respectable are fundamentally wrong in that the number of people who say they'd support non-straight people more if not for the flamboyant elements and would actually follow through is vanishingly small. It's even smaller than the people who say that think. There will always, forever, be another excuse, another rationalization, to keep them from supporting public participation by anyone not cisgender and heterosexual. They tell themselves the nice story that it's 'just because they're in you face about it' or 'it isn't appropriate for children', but those excuses shouldn't fool anyone including themselves. They might wish they actually supported non-straight people, cognitively they might known that they should, but they don't.



And as old as ten. This makes you incorrect on two levels.

The mission of DQSH is to instruct young children about gender issues (the program’s words). Since when is “Drag Queen” a gender?

 

[Stacyhs]

The mission of DQSH is to instruct young children about gender issues (the program’s words). Since when is “Drag Queen” a gender?

Just what do you think they are trying to instruct them about regarding gender?

 

[tyr_13]

The mission of DQSH is to instruct young children about gender issues (the program’s words). Since when is “Drag Queen” a gender?

What do you think 'gender issues' entails? What do you think a 'Drag Queen' is?

I'll just copy/paste the part most directly dealing with your question. The instruction is 'this kind of flamboyant person exists and that's fine'.

 

[lionking]

What do you think 'gender issues' entails? What do you think a 'Drag Queen' is?

I'll just copy/paste the part most directly dealing with your question. The instruction is 'this kind of flamboyant person exists and that's fine'.

But the stated mission of DQSH is to instruct children about gender issues, not flamboyance. As has been pointed out before, drag queens are mostly heterosexual males. Why not just get a trans person to do the readings?

 

[Upchurch]

That is true. Children are, from birth, subtly and variously taught that boys and girls have different roles and expectations and that heterosexuality is 'normal'. We see it in how toys are marketed, the colors blue and pink (girls can wear both, but try and find pink clothing for boys). My daughter was into dinosaurs from about age 3-4. I searched in vain for girls' clothing featuring dinosaurs. I eventually found ONE dress that had dinosaurs on it. I had to buy boys' pajamas in order to get a dino pattern. Barbie has a boyfriend, not a wife/girlfriend. Three and four year olds may be young, but they do absorb these 'lessons' even if subconsciously.

It’s worse than you think. They’re also taught gendered pronouns.

 

[Checkmite]

But the stated mission of DQSH is to instruct children about gender issues, not flamboyance. As has been pointed out before, drag queens are mostly heterosexual males. Why not just get a trans person to do the readings?

Because it would make no difference; the exact same people would be making the exact same complaints about it.

 

[gnome]

I pick up a different sort of valuable lesson than what's being discussed. A little indirect, maybe. We offer for examples "here's a LBTQ person with a regular and conservative clothing and soft-spoken to show you that they're not all weirdos in freaky outfits, they're not so different from others you accept as normal." which is valuable enough.

Adding "By the way, here's some colorful individuals in freaky outfits that don't act normal, and they don't have to be scary either." seems worthwhile too. Not judging a book by its cover. Lessening the pressure to conform to common standards of dress and behavior (aside from actual negative and harmful behavior of course). A kid that sees that might think "wow they look crazy and they're not afraid to show it!" might decide "hey, maybe I should wear my favorite funny hat and not be so worried what people think of it" and that can add a small piece of joy to their lives and lessen the common fear of not fitting in.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[tyr_13]

But the stated mission of DQSH is to instruct children about gender issues, not flamboyance. As has been pointed out before, drag queens are mostly heterosexual males. Why not just get a trans person to do the readings?

Flamboyance...in women's clothing. You do see the connection to gender issues in men wearing women's clothing, right?

 

[lionking]

Because it would make no difference; the exact same people would be making the exact same complaints about it.

Well I wouldn’t.

 

[dann]

That is true. Children are, from birth, subtly and variously taught that boys and girls have different roles and expectations and that heterosexuality is 'normal'. We see it in how toys are marketed, the colors blue and pink (girls can wear both, but try and find pink clothing for boys). My daughter was into dinosaurs from about age 3-4. I searched in vain for girls' clothing featuring dinosaurs. I eventually found ONE dress that had dinosaurs on it. I had to buy boys' pajamas in order to get a dino pattern. Barbie has a boyfriend, not a wife/girlfriend. Three and four year olds may be young, but they do absorb these 'lessons' even if subconsciously.

Pajamas and top.
But apparently a dino girl still has to be pink and have long eyelashes and wear a hair bow.
As for Barbie and even Ken ... (Does it come in a dad-bod version?!)

 

[pgwenthold]

What do you think 'gender issues' entails? What do you think a 'Drag Queen' is?

I'll just copy/paste the part most directly dealing with your question. The instruction is 'this kind of flamboyant person exists and that's fine'.

And make no mistake, that is the problem the dissenters have: that young people are allowed to know that they exist.

Horrors

 

[Thermal]

But the stated mission of DQSH is to instruct children about gender issues, not flamboyance. As has been pointed out before, drag queens are mostly heterosexual males. Why not just get a trans person to do the readings?

Petty nitpicks: the Drag Queen Story Hour officially changed its name to the Drag Story Hour for whatever reason. Per ye olde Wiki, "A drag queen is a person, usually male, who uses drag clothing and makeup to imitate and often exaggerate female gender signifiers and gender roles for entertainment purposes. Historically, drag queens have usually been gay men, and part of gay culture." So I think the thread is conflating men in drag with drag queens. The latter have a specific sexual orientation pretty hard wired into the description, and that they are exaggerating for entertainment is formally part of the gig. This is not about gender expression; it is putting up an entertainer who by definition is exaggerating female signifiers.

 

[lionking]

Petty nitpicks: the Drag Queen Story Hour officially changed its name to the Drag Story Hour for whatever reason. Per ye olde Wiki, "A drag queen is a person, usually male, who uses drag clothing and makeup to imitate and often exaggerate female gender signifiers and gender roles for entertainment purposes. Historically, drag queens have usually been gay men, and part of gay culture." So I think the thread is conflating men in drag with drag queens. The latter have a specific sexual orientation pretty hard wired into the description, and that they are exaggerating for entertainment is formally part of the gig. This is not about gender expression; it is putting up an entertainer who by definition is exaggerating female signifiers.

Thanks for the clarification. And the Wiki definition as to the exaggeration of females seems spot on to me.

 

[plague311]

A kid that sees that might think "wow they look crazy and they're not afraid to show it!" might decide "hey, maybe I should wear my favorite funny hat and not be so worried what people think of it" and that can add a small piece of joy to their lives and lessen the common fear of not fitting in.

And possibly add a bit of joy into someone else's life that is entertained by it too. One of the things that is being entirely overlooked in this thread, albeit because it's not something we can verify, is that the kids seem to be enjoying it. Every picture I've seen has shown kids smiling, laughing, listening attentively and they appear to be happy. We have absolutely zero verifiable reports that any kids have been harmed, none of it is mandatory, and, if the kids are happy, then what's the problem?

...the exaggeration of females seems spot on to me.

Shocking.

 

[lionking]

Shocking.

Take it up with Wikipedia. That definition is quite similar to Emily Cat’s description of drag as well.

 

[deadrose]

You are talking about children as young as 3. With much older children you may have an argument, but not very young kids.

My daughter would have been saved a lot of pain, a lot of hospitalization, and a lot of misery if she'd been given more examples. She was still in 3rd grade at school when she tried to kill herself. At what age do you think she should have been allowed to find out there were other people like her?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Indeed. And, while I would have no problem with people in drag reading stories, it is the mission that I have problems with. I do not think that anyone, let alone hetro males, should be instructing young child about LGBTQ issues. They are far too young, and if it were my tax dollars in play, I would object.

Please explain why "gay people exist and aren't evil" is a concept you wouldn't want a 3 year old learning?

My nieces have been aware of gay people, trans people and drag queens since they were about 3 or 4. Why is this a bad thing?

Please note that this is not teaching sex ed to these children, so any attempt to claim that "they shouldn't learn about sex" is an obviously misleading strawman.

Explain why children learning that LGBTQ+ people exist and are just as normal as straight people is bad.

 

[Stacyhs]

It’s worse than you think. They’re also taught gendered pronouns.

 

[Stacyhs]

Pajamas and top.
But apparently a dino girl still has to be pink and have long eyelashes and wear a hair bow.
As for Barbie and even Ken ... (Does it come in a dad-bod version?!)

Damn! Where were those pj's 25 years ago?