Drag Shows!!

[Upchurch]

...but I think you would be fooling yourself if you don't think there are places in the country where the Warps of this world are frowned on as being too far left.

I'd argue that those are the places that could most use exposure to diversity.

 

[Upchurch]

I am pretty strongly opposed to drag performances for children [snip]

Does this mean you would take action to disallow such performances or that you merely wouldn't attend?

 

[bluesjnr]

Does this mean you would take action to disallow such performances or that you merely wouldn't attend?

Interested to know why you ask?

 

[Upchurch]

Interested to know why you ask?

If one merely decides not to attend, that is fine. Everyone can make their own decisions. If one makes it so that no one else can make that decision themselves, therein lies the morality police problem that we've discussed earlier.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Unless I'm missing something, men in drag aren't trying to be women. They're trying to be men dressed in women's clothing. Have I got that wrong? So they're not trying to represent, or "womanface" anything. They sometimes have beards, or other male features.

Perhaps, given I don't pay much attention to it, I'm not understanding drag appropriately. My understanding has always been that they aren't trying to pass as a woman, therefore aren't caricaturing them. I'm open to being proven wrong.

No, of course they're not trying to be females. They are performing a caricature of females.

I think your take-away at the end is backwards. If they were trying to pass as females, they wouldn't be caricaturing females - they'd be trying to provide a realistic presentation.

Drag performers are portraying a negative stereotype of females for giggles. Drag performers do for females pretty much exactly what Looney Tunes did with Slowpoke Rodriguez and Pepe Le Pew. They use an exaggerated negative stereotype for entertainment.

 

[bluesjnr]

If one merely decides not to attend, that is fine. Everyone can make their own decisions. If one makes it so that no one else can make that decision themselves, therein lies the morality police problem that we've discussed earlier.

Are you positioning yourself to pass judgement on Emily's Cat depending upon their answer? Wouldn't that be against the rules?

Your question seems loaded.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Does this mean you would take action to disallow such performances or that you merely wouldn't attend?

Depends on the venue. At a local library, where attendance is voluntary, I merely wouldn't attend. I might go so far as to voice my opinions to other people, but I wouldn't protest or attempt to disallow it.

At a school, however, that's a different matter. Any situation where attendance is either mandatory or in which the parent's permission is not explicitly sought is something I would seek to disallow.

It's about parental discretion.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Are you positioning yourself to pass judgement on Emily's Cat depending upon their answer? Wouldn't that be against the rules?

Your question seems loaded.

FWIW, I didn't read it as loaded. In general, I find that knowing where someone else is coming from informs the discussion trajectory.

 

[Upchurch]

Are you positioning yourself to pass judgement on Emily's Cat depending upon their answer? Wouldn't that be against the rules?

Your question seems loaded.

My question is for clarification. I don't know what she means by "opposed".

 

[Foster Zygote]

Unless I'm missing something, men in drag aren't trying to be women. They're trying to be men dressed in women's clothing. Have I got that wrong? So they're not trying to represent, or "womanface" anything. They sometimes have beards, or other male features.

Perhaps, given I don't pay much attention to it, I'm not understanding drag appropriately. My understanding has always been that they aren't trying to pass as a woman, therefore aren't caricaturing them. I'm open to being proven wrong.

I remember one of the Pythons saying that whenever they needed a female character to be genuinely feminine in any way, the role would be given to Carol Cleveland or Connie Booth or another actress. The female characters that the men played were supposed to be caricatures.

 

[Upchurch]

Are you positioning yourself to pass judgement on Emily's Cat depending upon their answer? Wouldn't that be against the rules?

Sorry, you lost me there. I had to go back and re-read the Membership Agreement. Wouldn't what be against which rule?

 

[arthwollipot]

Not familiar with the Freddy thing. Goggling it, Freddy Fazbear seems to be...a cutsie wootsie bearsy wearsie?

Just circling back to this. Five Nights at Freddy's is a series of survival horror games that rely heavily on shock and jump scares. No-one who is even remotely familiar with the series would describe Freddy as "a cutsie wootsie bearsy wearsie". Rather, it is an animatronic nightmare out to murder you by suddenly appearing out of the darkness screaming like a banshee because you forgot to replace the battery in your flashlight.

 

[TomB]

Drag is usually adult entertainment, portraying sexual themes. The clothing and makeup is intentionally caricatured, and often portrays females as sex objects. They usually involved extremely large breasts and exaggerated hips and buttocks. The content is frequently lewd and raunchy in nature... and it very often portrays females in a denigrating manner.

I've been to a couple of drag shows in my life. It's not really my thing, so I'm no expert.

But my recollection of those shows does not match up with what you describe. What I remember is the performers dressed up like Bette Middler or Cher and lip-syncing to a song. There might have been a little banter...it was in a gay nightclub...but other than that and the stage names (stuff like "Anita Man") there wasn't anything particularly sexual about it. Nor were the costumes overly sexualized. Evening gown type stuff.

 

[arthwollipot]

I've been to a couple of drag shows in my life. It's not really my thing, so I'm no expert.

But my recollection of those shows does not match up with what you describe. What I remember is the performers dressed up like Bette Middler or Cher and lip-syncing to a song. There might have been a little banter...it was in a gay nightclub...but other than that and the stage names (stuff like "Anita Man") there wasn't anything particularly sexual about it. Nor were the costumes overly sexualized. Evening gown type stuff.

Yes, this is typical of the drag shows I've experienced. They usually lip sync songs like "I Will Survive", and have very little overtly sexualised content. There is at times some cheeky banter but that's about it. I once saw a drag king doing Alice Cooper. That was cool.

 

[Robin]

But I do know, lol. We hate liberals here.

You are assuming that you are representative of your neighbourhood. You probably aren't.

Most people aren't haters. I worked next to a Texan Republican voter for about two years. He was anything but a hater (with Hillary Clinton being the exception, he couldn't stand her).

 

[Robin]

No, of course they're not trying to be females. They are performing a caricature of females.

I think your take-away at the end is backwards. If they were trying to pass as females, they wouldn't be caricaturing females - they'd be trying to provide a realistic presentation.

Drag performers are portraying a negative stereotype of females for giggles. Drag performers do for females pretty much exactly what Looney Tunes did with Slowpoke Rodriguez and Pepe Le Pew. They use an exaggerated negative stereotype for entertainment.

I remember the extreme left used to say exactly the same thing back in the eighties. They probably still do, but thankfully I'm not around any of them at the moment.

The common negative stereotypes about women are that they nag, they're bad drivers, they want to control men etc.

I don't see any of those in drag acts. In fact I don't recall anything negative about women in any drag act I have seen. Drag queens commonly admire the women whose songs they lip synch to, beyond measure. I doubt there is a drag queen anywhere who wants to make fun of Judy Garland for example.

 

[bruto]

I'd argue that those are the places that could most use exposure to diversity.

For sure, but the issue thus far is what is, not what should be.

 

[Robin]

I recall watching Dusty Springfield on telly,I was maybe six or seven, and she has her back to the audience, looking at herself in a mirror.

But as the camera angle changes it becomes apparent that it's the real Dusty in the mirror and the person we first took to be Dusty was in fact Danny la Rue.

It never occurred to me that he was making fun of Dusty or caricaturing her.

In fact I have never seen a drag performance where the artist was anything but in awe of their subject.

 

[Robin]

I didn't suggest your fancy dress.costumes were of any relevance.

So let's get back to Pantomime.

Essentially you are asking how men dressed as women entertaining children slides over to men dressed as women entertaining children.

I don't get what you don't get about that.

 

[Thermal]

I didn't suggest your fancy dress.costumes were of any relevance.

And I didn't suggest that your pastor stuffing his bra was of any relevance. Yet here we are.

So let's get back to Pantomime.

Let's not, as it has nothing whatsoever to do with a web site for Texans to report drag shows.

Essentially you are asking how men dressed as women entertaining children slides over to men dressed as women entertaining children.

I don't get what you don't get about that.

That's because it has nothing to do with my posts or the thread topic. Productive discussion does seem to be in the rear view mirror, though.