Drag Shows!!

[Robin]

No. Worst case scenario is you are teaching children to look at people with atypical gender presentation as clowns. This is rather the opposite of the stated intent, and a full-tilt backfire. Speaking of backfires, several videos have been presented of full-tilt backfires already. Mr "My Pussy Good Enough To Eat" and the others. And what is our demonstrable benefit? "What does it matter?", you say? Come on, man.

Mr 'My Pussy Good Enough to Eat" wasn't reading stories to children so that doesn't count as a backfire. The backfires have been the drag queen sharing pictures and the inclusion of a child offender. But if we are going to shut down everything where that sort of backfire occurs you have to close down everything, including schools and all sports programs which have much, much worse backfires.

And the only people children will ever encounter with the sort of gender presentation drag queens evince are other drag queens (and perhaps pantomime dames) so I don't see that as a particular problem, even if the drag queens are seen as clowns by the kids.

 

[Robin]

For the appallingly obvious reason: it is the thread topic presented. You know, the actual thing for discussion here? If we were talking about women singing songs for children in French maid outfits, I'd have the same argument: "Y U do dis?"

A telling example. But what if we were talking about an initiative to get kids to stay off drugs presented by a cop?

Would you be using the same argument then?

 

[lionking]

A telling ecample. But what if we were talking about an initiative to get kids to stay off drugs presented by a cop?

Would you be using the same argument then?

How young would the children be?

 

[Robin]

Or a campaign to get 3 and 4 year olds to eat healthily, presented by someone dressed as Superman?

 

[lionking]

Or a campaign to get 3 and 4 year olds to eat healthily, presented by someone dressed as Superman?

Please get your analogies in order.

ETA. Do you have any experience with 3 and 4 year olds?

 

[Robin]

Please get your analogies in order.

Please try to ensure your kneejerk carps make some kind of sense.

ETA. Do you have any experience with 3 and 4 year olds?

I have three kids

 

[Robin]

Or a campaign to get 3 and 4 year olds to eat healthily, presented by someone dressed as Superman?

So what about the question. Would you object to this because you couldn't be sure it was having the intended effect.

 

[plague311]

Please get your analogies in order.

ETA. Do you have any experience with 3 and 4 year olds?

I do. I currently have a 3 year old granddaughter. So it's happening in real time.

What I'm taking from his words are that there are no issues with kids being read stories by people in various costumes. Why is this one sticking in people's craw more than those?

Thermal has said kids might not even know they're in drag, he said that a few times. So as Upchurch said, the worst thing that happens then is the kids listen to a story by an enthusiastic reader. In that situation, what's the problem? Specifically.

 

[lionking]

Okay, in anticipation I won’t get an answer, 3 and 4 year olds have no ******* agency. Anywhere in the world. Christ, do I have to spell this out? If you want to change behaviour in regard to diet or drug taking, talk to the parents. Don’t waste time and resources introducing topics to children they have no way of comprehending.

 

[Thermal]

Mr 'My Pussy Good Enough to Eat" wasn't reading stories to children so that doesn't count as a backfire. The backfires have been the drag queen sharing pictures and the inclusion of a child offender. But if we are going to shut down everything where that sort of backfire occurs you have to close down everything, including schools and all sports programs which have much, much worse backfires.

The discussion is in no way limited to story hours. Mr "**** Me All Night" was performing lewdly in front of children, which is in fact what we are talking about. Would you like me to link you to the OP for a refresher?

And the only people children will ever encounter with the sort of gender presentation drag queens evince are other drag queens (and perhaps pantomime dames) so I don't see that as a particular problem, even if the drag queens are seen as clowns by the kids.

I don't know what the hell you are talking about here.

 

[Robin]

Okay, in anticipation I won’t get an answer.

You have answers to everyone you said. Meanwhile I still haven't gotten an answer to the question you are currently sidetracking from.

3 and 4 year olds have no ******* agency. Anywhere in the world.

On other words you don't have any experience of 3 and 4 year olds.

 

[Thermal]

A telling example.

Now what the hell are you talking about? I linked children's entertainment to a normally (but not necessarily) adult display, although they have no logical connection. That's called being analogous.

But what if we were talking about an initiative to get kids to stay off drugs presented by a cop?

Would you be using the same argument then?

Well let's see if it passes the analogous standard, Mr Wizard:

Is using drugs a child's entertainment? Nope. Strike one.

Is presenting as a cop normally a form of adult entertainment? Nope. Strike two.

Are drugs and cops normally unrelated? Nope. They go together with the legal probability of milk and cookies.

Strike three, Yer out.

 

[Robin]

The discussion is in no way limited to story hours.

Your "backfires" comment was on reply to something Upchurch said specifically about the drag queen story hour.

Mr "**** Me All Night" was performing lewdly in front of children,

Children who were brought there by their parents who had been warned more than once about the lewdness of the event, specifically in person at the door and who made their decision that this was OK for their kids.

Again, this is a general issue of whether or not parents should be allowed to let their own children see things that include lewdness. Erotic dancing at half time at football matches. Mrs Slocombe saying "I was up all night stroking my pussy" and so on.

I think that should be up to the parents.

 

[Thermal]

Children who were brought there by their parents who had been warned more than once about the lewdness of the event, specifically in person at the door and who made their decision that this was OK for their kids.

...and the hosts thought it was ok to allow children in. And the Garden of Eden performers thought it was great for kids too. And the other parents certainly didn't lodge any objections that I saw. And of course Mr **** Me All Night gyrated in his underwear in front of his child audience.

Say, what other ridiculously lewd behaviors do you champion for performing in front of children? Cuz I don't make excuses to do so because the parents allowed it. If these parents allowed public spanking, would you spank their children onstage?

Guess what? It doesn't ******* matter what the parents allowed. All the other adults saw the children, and let 'er rip anyway. They raised not a single objection.

 

[lionking]

On other words you don't have any experience of 3 and 4 year olds.

Far from it. Seven children and seven grandchildren (two of whom are staying overnight).

Please explain to me the agency very young people have in regard to diet and drugs? Parents take responsibility for young children’s diets. Now very few irresponsible parents might let 3 and 4 year olds choose their diet, but this is not how things work in the real world.

Want to rethink Superman and diets and cops and drugs…..

 

[Robin]

Well let's see if it passes the analogous standard, Mr Wizard:

Is using drugs a child's entertainment? Nope. Strike one.

You've immediately lost the plot.

The questions should be "Is staying away from drugs something we wish to encourage our children to do" and "Is eating healthily something we would wish to encourage our children to do?" That's "yes" and "yes".

 

[Robin]

.
Want to rethink Superman and diets and cops and drugs…..

Nope, question still stands.

I definitely think you should the idea that your grand daughter has no agency.

I recall one of my kids saying at the age of two "I was right and you were wrong." How is that not agency?

(For anyone who is interested he was indeed right and I was wrong)

 

[Thermal]

You've immediately lost the plot.

The questions should be "Is staying away from drugs something we wish to encourage our children to do" and "Is eating healthily something we would wish to encourage our children to do?" That's "yes" and "yes".

Whatever. So let's compare entertainment analogousness: is droning about a negative subject analogous to reading a story or singing? Nope. Strike one stands. And since you took the time to snip out the other strikes, I assume you have no argument with the conclusions presented. So yer still out. Three strikes in one sentence.

 

[Robin]

Whatever. So let's compare entertainment analogousness

Indeed, I'm still trying to work out the scope of your objection. Does it only apply to situations where an entertainer is involved? Do unintended consequences not worry you if there is no entertainer involved?

 

[Robin]

"...droning on ...

Where did I say anything about droning on????

Strike one stands.

No of course it doesn't, especially when you put words in my mouth to make this claim.

Your objection makes no sense.

I assume you have no argument with the conclusions presented.

You are assuming that you have even presented a coherent argument.