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Dr. Colin Ross's challenge

In what sense is this an "energy beam"? I get the energy part, but I don't understand the beam part. If your brain is emitting electromagnetic waves in all directions, and those waves are partially attenuated by the skull, it makes sense to speculate that they are more easily detected through a hole in the skull. But this does not a "beam" make. If the electrode is suspended a millimeter above the brow ridge, it would probably work there, too. There's no beam coming from your eye socket, let alone from your eye itself.

Your challenge seems quite clearly designed to take advantage of the wording, rather than the intent, of the rules. I can't imagine why your initial application was accepted, other than by your misleading use of the phrasing "energy beam" and "eye" to make JREF think you were talking about a comic book super power.

In no sense is your challenge paranormal, nor, from your own statements, did you ever think it was. At the best, this is unethical charlatanism; at the worst, it's deliberate misrepresentation in order to claim the prize without meeting the purpose, intent, or design of the contest.
 
DallasDad said:
In what sense is this an "energy beam"? I get the energy part, but I don't understand the beam part. If your brain is emitting electromagnetic waves in all directions, and those waves are partially attenuated by the skull, it makes sense to speculate that they are more easily detected through a hole in the skull.
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Not the eyes though. They use something called subdural electrodes which basically are electrodes bored through the head. Remember your eyes is made up of the same soft squishy fluids that the rest of your head is made up of which means its going to be no better than a regular EEG electrode on the skin.
 
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Colin Ross said:
I never said that I could control the energy or turn it on and off only that I could use it to make a tone sound out of a speaker.
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Hmmm, I checked, and your claim isn't as clear on that:

http://www.rossinst.com/paranormal_challenge.html
I claim that I can send a beam of energy out of my eyes, capture it in a special set of goggles I have built, and then use the energy to make a tone play out of a speaker. I can do this using the equipment I will bring to the challenge and I can do so at any time, in any office or hotel room that is convenient. I can make the tone sound at will and can signal that I will do so with a finger signal or in response to a verbal command from another person, such as "now" or "go." The tone will play briefly when I decide to make it do so using my eyes and will not play at any other time.
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Huh?????? This is really strange. I'm beginning to wonder if Dr. Colin Ross actually developed an electrooculargram.
 
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So, Colin Ross, the JREF Challenge staff may not be interested in how the thing is supposed to work, but I am. How does it work? How do the goggles sense the energy beam coming from your eyes or anywhere else? Is this an optical, electromagnetic, electrostatic, infrared, or other phenomenon?
 
Colin Ross said:
Gord - I'm talking about electromagnetic radiation in the 0-40Hz/1-50 microvolt range, not heat energy. The JREF rules did not require me to specify the type of energy and I was not asked to do so. In fact I was instructed not to submit any theories about how my challenge would work.
These are the JREF rules and definitions, not something I devised. My challenge has been accepted - there is no going back at this point, we can only go forward.
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Microvolts? I'm a physicist and I've never heard of this unit ever used regarding any kind of electromagnetic radiation. Volts are a measure of electrical potential, not EM-radiation; that and EM-radiation is often measured in a) units of energy (Joules or electron-volts), b) frequency (Hz), or c) wavelength (distance units - meters, feet, etc). You got the frequency thing right, except for the fact that a frequency of 0 Hz is a non-existent EM-wave, but this microvolts thing is weird.

This claims smells very vague to me, almost overly so in an effort to muddy things. And I get the sense that there is nothing "paranormal" here - it sounds like nothing more than an electronic converter that takes light energy and electronically amplifies the signal to run a speaker. You can pick up these sort of circuit kits at Radio Shack.

I'm also guessing that the way this setup works is that the goggles that "capture the energy from the eyes" are actually emitting the EM-radiation in the first place. I'm willing to guess that the whole setup will work equally well with or without the goggles "catching the eye energy" and that the whole business about "eye energy" is just irrelevant. What would really need to be established here is whether or not Colin Ross is even emitting the radiation he claims from his eyes in the first place (which is why the question of exactly what kind of EM-radiation it is is so important) - that is the only thing which would even come close to qualifying as paranormal. It seems to me that what he wants to do is use his little machine to make the speaker ring, and then claim it was his "eye energy" that did it in the first place, when in actuality it was probably the interaction of the electronics in the goggles & speaker that did it. Then he would claim "success".

Of course, based upon what I've read here, this is just speculation on my part. But that's my $0.02 worth on the matter.

ETA: I'd also be interested in knowing whether or not Colin Ross would be willing to have someone analyze the electronics behind his goggles & speaker equipment.
 
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MattusMaximus said:
Microvolts? I'm a physicist and I've never heard of this unit ever used regarding any kind of electromagnetic radiation. Volts are a measure of electrical potential, not energy; that and EM radiation is often measured in a) units of energy (Joules or electron-volts), b) frequency (Hz), or c) wavelength (distance units - meters, feet, etc).

This claims smells very vague to me.
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Well I feel really stupid for not noticing that.
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Well technically at those frequencies you can use volts. The stuff you plug into the wall is EMF but we still say its 120V. And biopotentials are measured in volts. But on the other hand he is referring to a wave traveling out in space which means that you are correct. Microvolts isn't the right unit. In fact given the right circuit one could amplify the voltage to absurdly stupid values so giving an arbitrary voltage is just wrong.
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I just wouldn't be surprised at this point if the guy built an EOG and somehow thinks its special.
I'm also guessing that the way this setup works is that the goggles that "capture the energy from the eyes" are actually emitting the EM-radiation in the first place. I'm willing to guess that the whole setup will work equally well with or without the goggles "catching the eye energy" and that the whole business about "eye energy" is just irrelevant. What would really need to be established here is whether or not Colin Ross is even emitting the radiation he claims from his eyes in the first place (which is why the question of exactly what kind of EM-radiation it is is so important) - that is the only thing which would even come close to qualifying as paranormal. It seems to me that what he wants to do is use his little machine to make the speaker ring, and then claim it was his "eye energy" that did it in the first place, when in actuality it was probably the interaction of the electronics in the goggles & speaker that did it. Then he would claim "success".
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Its not exactly a paranormal claim to start with.
 
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technoextreme said:
Yo.... Did you not read my post?
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No I didn't, sorry. I was just responding to the OP with my own thoughts on the matter. It seems that, pardon the pun, we're on the same wavelength here - do you know if anyone at JREF involved in the challenge has thought of these points?
 
The references to taking an EKG at a distance with a "high-impedance electrode" suggest to me that Dr. Ross is having trouble with the distinction between an electrostatically, i.e., capacitively coupled signal and an electromagnetic field.

That experiment would demonstrate the existence of an e-field, which is not surprising as any difference in electrical potential between two points in space will create an e-field.

If the body is genuinely emitting EM energy, then the magnetic component should be measurable. If you can obtain an EKG using an electrostatically shielded inductive pickup it might demonstrate the emission of an electromagnetic field.

ETA: the correct units for the E component of an EM field would be volts/meter.
 
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MattusMaximus said:
No I didn't, sorry. I was just responding to the OP with my own thoughts on the matter. It seems that, pardon the pun, we're on the same wavelength here - do you know if anyone at JREF involved in the challenge has thought of these points?
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Yes we are. I doubt anyone at the JREF thought of these points because the only reason why I realized it is through sheer dumb luck. I opened to the right page in my 600 page textbook. I knew enough to pick the biomedical engineering textbook.
ktesibios said:
The references to taking an EKG at a distance with a "high-impedance electrode" suggest to me that Dr. Ross is having trouble with the distinction between an electrostatically, i.e., capacitively coupled signal and an electromagnetic field.

That experiment would demonstrate the existence of an e-field, which is not surprising as any difference in electrical potential between two points in space will create an e-field.

If the body is genuinely emitting EM energy, then the magnetic component should be measurable. If you can obtain an EKG using an electrostatically shielded inductive pickup it might demonstrate the emission of an electromagnetic field.

ETA: the correct units for the E component of an EM field would be volts/meter.
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Good points.
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Engineering practice: Ignore the electric field and measure the magnetic.
 
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ktesibios said:
If the body is genuinely emitting EM energy, then the magnetic component should be measurable. If you can obtain an EKG using an electrostatically shielded inductive pickup it might demonstrate the emission of an electromagnetic field.
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Yes, this is an excellent point. And this is something that would definitely have to be measured prior to any kind of test in order to establish whether or not there are any "eye EM-waves" being emitted in the first place within the range specified. If no such EM-waves can be detected, then that settles it right there.
 
technoextreme said:
Yes we are. I doubt anyone at the JREF thought of these points because the only reason why I realized it is through sheer dumb luck. I opened to the right page in my 600 page textbook. I knew enough to pick the biomedical engineering textbook.
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I'm thinking we should send off a few PMs to alert some folks of these more technical points we've brought up regarding this situation.
 
Colin Ross said:
Hi - I did not claim that the energy comes from only my eyes and I did not say anything about whether anyone else could do anything - I only said that I could do so.
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Well then, if just anyone can achieve the same results, then you aren't doing anything paranormal -- actually, it would be the very definition of "normal".
 
Colin Ross, if you are asking if you can win the MDC by doing something any other person can do, but relabeling what you do using vague and obscure definitions and terminologies, the answer is no.
 
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Given that you claim that prior art shows that it is possible to detect EKG emissions from the body using high impedence electrodes at a distance, then what you're proposing to do sounds a lot like repeating someone else's experiment. Regardless of the source of the signal, it is well known that electrical signals, including EKG, EEG, and EMG can be detected by skin electrodes, and you state that these can also be detected by suitable electrodes at a distance by known methods. Since you're admitting that this already has a scientific explanation, your repeating the experiment does not and can not be considered paranormal. I would strongly urge the JREF to deny your claim, as it is clearly not a claim of the paranormal but a claim that a known aspect of science can, through tortured semantics, be falsely reclassified as paranormal.

A
 
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