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Dowsing works

Earth Angel said:
Well I have no idea what the ideomotot effect is
Then I really strongly recomend that you find out.
... but being a scientist he probabaly does.
That doesn't follow. There's no reason why, say a physicist, a chemist, an astronomer etc would have heard of it. What branch of science is he in?
I have no idea why no dowser has been able to show and effect when tested.
I, on the other hand, think I could guess.
No my ability isn't different from others why would it be .. because I happeend to be caught on film? It was no my intention to be filmed doing it, it just happened.
If your dowsing ability is really no different from others, it's no different from mine, which is quite definitely caused by the ideomotor effect, otr from all the challenge applicants whose powers mysteriously vanish when put to the test.
As for dowsing I alread said I use it for oils and to talk to spirits .. and before you say anything the questions I ask I don't know the answers to but the answers are always correct! How do I know this because we have manged to find the information!
The answers are always correct? Interesting. What are the questions? How do you verify the correctness of the answers? Don't be coy, tell all.
 
So do you ask questions to people only you can see and hear, and they give you answers that are correct because they say they are?

And how would this be discernably different from someone just making things up?

I really want to see this video. Can anyone host it?
 
Earth Angel said:
The spirit gave us a warning about another group who were in trouble, so one of our group legged it over to the other side of the fort, just as they were running out as strange things were happening to them.

So, what were you doing in a "fort"? Where was it?

(This description leaves me imagining a bedraggled group of cowboys trying to fight off an Apache war party...)
 
I almost photographed a ghost. It was standing by the tombstone just staring at me, almost inviting me to take it's picture. And I had my camera with me too, but dang it, wouldn't you know it? The darn batteries were too weak to give sufficient lighting.

That's right.

The spirit was willing but the flash was weak.
 
Tricky, I really like that. It fits this situation so well that I'm thinking you just made it up. If so, I'm impressed.
 
CurtC said:
Tricky, I really like that. It fits this situation so well that I'm thinking you just made it up. If so, I'm impressed.
(sigh) I wish I could claim it, but I have to confess I read it years ago. If I do have any talent whatsoever, it is for remembering jokes.

Hope you still respect me.
 
Of course dowsing exists ... my friend's mum's sister knows someone at work that met a bloke in the pub that told her he had seen it working. Can't beat that can you?? Of course, if you lot are just going to drone on about evidence then what's the point in me explaining it all to you???
 
The fort was an old army fort called Brockhurt in Gosport (UK) we were there ghost hunting, was a craching evening I can tell you .. there was lots of things going on .. light flashing in the middle of fields, people getting locked in rooms (and before you say it no, there wasn't anyone about flashing lights at the time and noone locked the doors!)

Ok so I haven't found answers to all the questions must most of them have been answred.



So do you ask questions to people only you can see and hear, and they give you answers that are correct because they say they are?

I can't see spirits and don't hear them often, myself or someone I am with will ask a question and the pendolum will give the answer.

The spirit was willing but the flash was weak.

LOL that made me chuckle.

Its like the two ghosts that walked into the pub, the landlord man looked at them and said 'sorry we don't serve spirits!'

L&L

EA
 
myself or someone I am with will ask a question and the pendolum will give the answer
And how do you know the answer you get is correct.

Also how do you know th answer isn't produced entirely by you?

Please read here about the ideomotor effect?

After all if people are asking questions to a spirit you must have some way of checking whether these answers are correct or not just coming from you.
 
Tricky said:
(sigh) I wish I could claim it, but I have to confess I read it years ago. If I do have any talent whatsoever, it is for remembering jokes.

Hope you still respect me.
And how long ya been waiting to whip that one out?
 
Tricky said:
I almost photographed a ghost. It was standing by the tombstone just staring at me, almost inviting me to take it's picture. And I had my camera with me too, but dang it, wouldn't you know it? The darn batteries were too weak to give sufficient lighting.

That's right.

The spirit was willing but the flash was weak.

Oh dear...
 
And how do you know the answer you get is correct.

Because we checked the fort records and with the curator of the place.

Also how do you know the answer isn't produced entirely by you?

I can understand where your coming from with this (thanks for the link as well) but how would I know the answers, I had never been there before and knew nothing about the chap I was communicating with. Oh that reminds me .. other groups connected with the same energy and we didn't meet back until the end so there was no way we could have told each other about it!

L&L

EA
 
Well I hate to seem all sceptical but...

Firstly we have to assume you are telling us the truth in the first place
Secondly we have to assume that you are remembering the events accurately
Thirdly we have to assume that you didn't research the fort in any way before you went there
Fourthly we have to assume that you hadn't inadvertantly picked up infomation about the place elsewhere (on forums or from other ghosthunters)

Assuming all that:

Could you do this again with sceptics present under (at least reasonably) controlled conditions?

And what sort of information are you given?
 
More details, please. Can you tell us every question you asked, and every answer you got. Then we'll know whether to be impressed. This was recorded on a digital camera, wasn't it, so you could make a transcript.

Or better still, can someone explain to EarthAngel how to make the video available to us --- I don't know, but I want a look. Thanks.
 
As we wait for the video...

I picture a crystal hanging from a string. You ask Yes/No questions out loud. If the pendulum goes left-right (or clockwise, or whatever), the answer is Yes; if the opposite, No. Is this the setup?

If so, more Q’s: Who decided the questions? Was more than 1 person holding the pendulum? Was the Curator in the room? Does the Curator encourage ghost hunting? Could anybody else in the room have known the answers?

There are ways you can make a pendulum move when somebody else is holding it (e.g. nudging the table). Can you rule out such ways?

Bonus: How do you know you were “communicating with spirits,” as opposed to “seeing the future” (i.e. seeing the time when you would find the answers), or that someone was using “psychokinesis,” or etc.?
 
Ashles said:
Because Randi wouldn't pay the money (I doubt it even exists) and anyway he would set impossible targets to achieve if he didn't just turn the offer down flat without explanation (like he does to most claims).
He knows dowsing works really and has admitted it on several occasions.

Um....where would that be exactly?
Actually dowsing has been tested exstensively. It doesn't work. I'm sure the dowsers (most of them) believe they can do it - but they can't.
 
Tim, you do know Ashles was kidding, right?



Edited to add: At least I hope he was...
 
"Testing a dowser is extremely simple and straightforward, and the dowsers who have took the test have ALL agreed in advance that this is a completely fair test. For that matter, they all score well on the test when they know where the object to be found was."

said Seismosaurus

I have to strongly disagree Seismo.

I have thought for some time that asking dowsers to approve any particular test is flawed science.

First of all, although it is the dowser who is claiming to have the special powers, that doesn't qualify him/her to approve positively or otherwise, the design of any particular scientific experiment. We are dealing here potentially with unknown and inexplicable causes, so by definition, pioneering experimental design is hampered by lack prior scientific measurement and knowledge.

I believe the best designed experiment from the scientific viewpoint(as opposed to winning some monetary prize), is to use professional dowsers, who earn their living from success or failure in the field.

These dowsers must not be aware that any experiment is taking place. The companies that are employing the dowser and who are paying him for success or otherwise, would have to be asked to cooperate in some clandestine manner, to allow experimental observers to participate anonomously in some way.

It is crucial tha the dowser does not know his activities are being monitored or recorded. If he finds out, then the results of that particular experiment would have to be discarded.

This would be quite an expensive project involving many different observers conducting many experiments, over a long period of time.

Once the results are recorded and analysed, then statistical conclusions can be made as to the rate of success or failure, and whether or not the success, if any, can be explained by anything other than pure chance.

There is obvious weaknesses in this approach that would have to be addressed, and there is no doubt as many options available, to minimise this. However, I believe this is a much more objective approach that addresses the real situation on the ground where dowsers appear at least to be successful enough to earn a regular living.

Experimental design has to start from a totally neutral position, but at the same time test for the effect where apparently, the phenomena seems to be the most prevalent. i.e. in the field.

Creating synthetic environments for testing dowsing IMHO, is flawed science, even if the dowsers themselves agree to it.
 
Explorer, think about this: when dowsers KNOW where an object for which they're dowsing is (during the trial run) they perform with 100 % success rate, but when they're blind to where the object is, the rate of success is what one would expect due to chance. So obviously the problem is with them and not the testing procedure. If testing somehow hampered their ability they wouldn't have scored 100 % success rate on the trial run. They're either deluded or frauds.

So I ask you, why do we need your elaborate testing when such simple test is all that's needed?
 
On numerous occasions, I have gone and picked sites for water wells after the well sited by a dowser went dry. I've picked up quite a few amusing stories about dowsing. My favorite came from a water department manager, showing off the new town well sited by a dowser. When asked if the several piles of cuttings scattered about the field were from test holes, he replied that the first half-dozen sites the dowser picked were not good, but when he finally picked the last site, why, that was a good one!

Why is it that so many people believe in dowsing with a religious zeal? It's just like Creationists.

I really like the modern, high-tech dowsing rods that can be adjusted with the turn of a knob to seek water, oil, gold, money, drugs, or bodies. When I see how much money police departments and schools blow on these devices, I realize I'm in the wrong business.
 

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