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Dowsing by a Skeptic

Fellow Traveler said:
Check out this link. http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Dowsing-or-Divining-Rods
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Although dowsing has never been scientifically proven to work in a controlled setting, the practice remains popular in many parts of the world.
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and

It's been suggested that humans may be able to sense electric and magnetic energy that's invisible to the eye (as many animals can) and subconsciously manipulate the dowsing rods or pendulum to reflect that information (the ideomotor effect).
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...suggested with no evidence, or corroboration...

and

If you can't [dowse successfully], either you're a bad dowser (you're not focused or relaxed enough, you're psychically challenged, you're holding the rod(s) incorrectly, or you're too skeptical to allow dowsing to work for you) or dowsing is nothing more than superstition punctuated by coincidence. You decide.
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What if we designed a robot to hold the rods? A robot with stabilized arms so that no random vibration or wind gust would make them cross?

I expect the rods would not react at all. Robots are not subject to the ideomotor effect.
 
Fellow Traveler said:
I hoped by writing my anecdote above, that some younger person would try the experiment. Get two steel coat hangers and, straighten them and bend each in an L shape. Find a place in line and between two water valves on a known water line in a city system and cross the line with the coat hangers, holding one part of the L perpendicular to the ground and the other parts parallel to the ground and see for yourself. If you get a crossing of the parallel parts you have verified this as legitimate.
If I was duped, I'm ok with that.
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You won't find anyone here to do that. It's impossible, as tests frighten them.
 
SaskMick said:
You won't find anyone here to do that. It's impossible, as tests frighten them.
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Nonsense. Tests are what the scientific method (which you apparently ignorantly dismiss) is all about.

It is you who refuse to do properly conducted tests even for yourself.

You've demonstrated little understanding of (and little willingness to learn about) proper scientific protocols to test dowsing claims.
 
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Spektator said:
What if we designed a robot to hold the rods? A robot with stabilized arms so that no random vibration or wind gust would make them cross?

I expect the rods would not react at all. Robots are not subject to the ideomotor effect.
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No need for all that.

Place rods in holes drilled into a piece of wood that is level and sturdy, the holes should allow the rods the ability to freely move.

next simply place a bucket of water underneath said rod holder and I suspect as no one is holding them they will remain stationary to the amazement of none.
 
SaskMick said:
That's total bollocks.



True. I have no interest in your "proper scientific protocols":D

There are things that science can not explain, dowsing is one of them.


"I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as they do astrology, as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time." Albert Einstein
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Yawn. Do you think we haven't heard that crap before?

Einstein likely didn't say anything like that, and in any case, if he did, while half asleep or drunk, dowsing claims still need to rely on proper testing to be believable. It's an appeal to authority. Look it up.

It's still up to dowsers to prove their claims. Are you going to do that?
 
SaskMick said:
True. I have no interest in your "proper scientific protocols":D
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By the way, why don't you just admit that you lied and you never were a skeptic? It's painfully obvious to anyone reading your posts.
 
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AdMan said:
Yawn. Do you think we haven't heard that crap before?

Einstein likely didn't say anything like that, and in any case, if he did, while half asleep or drunk, dowsing claims still need to rely on proper testing to be believable. It's an appeal to authority. Look it up.
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And you NEVER quote anything written by a scientist I presume. LOL

AdMan said:
It's still up to dowsers to prove their claims. Are you going to do that?
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I have proven it to beyond my satisfaction. What you think or don't think is meaningless.
 
SaskMick said:
Try it then ! Once you have confirmed that the rods will move as in my video, it's time for stage two.:)
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As has already been stated numerous times, many of us here have tried it. I've tried it. No-one disputes that the rods move, without being consciously directed to do so. Despite your ignorant assertion, science knows precisely why they move. That scientific explanation - the ideomotor effect - is the only one that explains why dowsing does not work under controlled conditions even though dowsers are utterly convinced it will.
 
SaskMick said:
You won't find anyone here to do that. It's impossible, as tests frighten them.
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That was not a test but a demonstration. We already know that dowsing works when the dowser knows the answer in advance. We also know - from real tests - that dowsing does not work when the does not know the answer in advance.

This is the problem that you avoid facing by devising your own tests that do not prevent you from knowing in advance.

I would not mind participating in a demonstration of dowsing, but I would only be surprised (not frightened!) if it was a real double-blind test, and dowsing worked. When I was young I experimented with a pendulum, but is always knew how it worked. My experiments were aimed at finding out how motionless I could be and still control the pendulum.
 
SaskMick said:
You won't find anyone here to do that. It's impossible, as tests frighten them.
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Not so, SaskMick.
I've tried dowsing myself.
Not only tried it, but tested it.
Much to my chagrin, it was became clear via testing that dowsing has the same basis as the ouija board- the ideomotor effect.

And I moved on.


SaskMick said:
[ . . . ]"I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as they do astrology, as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time." Albert Einstein
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Could you tell me where this quotation is from, please?
 
AdMan said:
Nonsense. Tests are what the scientific method (which you apparently ignorantly dismiss) is all about.

It is you who refuse to do properly conducted tests even for yourself.

You've demonstrated little understanding of (and little willingness to learn about) proper scientific protocols to test dowsing claims.
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I'm beginning to wonder if SaskMick has finally done a properly blinded test. It would explain his sudden anger with us and the scientific method. Up until now he has been reasonably affable in his utter cluelessness.
 
pakeha said:
Could you tell me where this quotation is from, please?
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He likely won't answer, but I doubt any dowser can prove Einstein actually said it, and they'll simply cite other dowsing websites.

It's likely made up.
 
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SaskMick said:
You won't find anyone here to do that. It's impossible, as tests frighten them.
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It is hard to see how this can be anything other than a lie, given that much of this thread is you responding to people explaining the test protocols they would require and their experience of how well dowsing compares to random chance under a test.

Before you continue to breach the MA and are no longer capable of responding perhaps you could explain how you came to the conclusion nobody would do a test, after so many pages of evidence to the contrary?
 
Pixel42 said:
I'm beginning to wonder if SaskMick has finally done a properly blinded test. It would explain his sudden anger with us and the scientific method. Up until now he has been reasonably affable in his utter cluelessness.
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That is possible. Another explanation is that he was disingenuous from the beginning. Questioning that was what incited his latest outburst (which likely won't be in this thread for long).
 
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Tomtomkent said:
Before you continue to breach the MA and are no longer capable of responding perhaps you could explain how you came to the conclusion nobody would do a test, after so many pages of evidence to the contrary?
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He's been pointed to a thread which contains photographic evidence that I have helped design, and attended, such a test.
 
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