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Dowsing by a Skeptic

Innocuous said:
Does the theory actually reference dowsing? If not, can you show us how you came to your conclusion?
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You'll need to watch this lecture by physicist and skeptic Sean Carroll. It's a better explanation than I can provide.



Very briefly, quantum field theory allows us to model the interactions between matter and energy, and its predictions have been consistently confirmed and capped off recently with the discovery of the Higgs boson. While we certainly don't know everything (exactly what dark matter is, for example, or how general relativity integrates with quantum mechanics), we do have a very exact map of what we do and don't know.

Our understanding of the physics at the scales and energy levels we deal with in everyday life is complete and dowsing is flatly impossible.
 
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Just to add to that a little: The result Carroll discusses (he covers the LHC and the discovery of the Higgs boson as a lead-in) not only rules out dowsing but all other psychic powers, as well as souls, ghosts, any sort of afterlife, near-death experiences as anything other than the misfiring of a dying brain, and homeopathy. And a whole bunch of other things too. It's quite a remarkable result, and it is as conclusive as anything science has ever discovered.
 
PixyMisa said:
Our understanding of the physics at the scales and energy levels we deal with in everyday life is complete and dowsing is flatly impossible.
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Are you drawing your own conclusion here, or does the the theory reference dowsing? (Not the presenter, the actual theory.)

If the theory doesn't say dowsing is impossible, what is your reasoning in drawing that conclusion?

(I do think dowsing is nonsense, but I don't think QFT proves that.)
 
PixyMisa said:
Very briefly, quantum field theory allows us to model the interactions between matter and energy, and its predictions have been consistently confirmed and capped off recently with the discovery of the Higgs boson. While we certainly don't know everything (exactly what dark matter is, for example, or how general relativity integrates with quantum mechanics), we do have a very exact map of what we do and don't know.

Our understanding of the physics at the scales and energy levels we deal with in everyday life is complete and dowsing is flatly impossible.
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Not at all. All that is saying is that if there is such a thing as dowsing (which I don't think any of us is asserting), it has to use one or more of these known mechanisms. Dowsing can only be ruled impossible a priori if you claim it uses properties that violate QFT. That's a type of ruling it out of court by definition.

For example, I think we can agree that dowsing for strong magnets with ferrous metal rods would work and wouldn't violate QFT.
 
marplots said:
Not at all. All that is saying is that if there is such a thing as dowsing (which I don't think any of us is asserting), it has to use one or more of these known mechanisms. Dowsing can only be ruled impossible a priori if you claim it uses properties that violate QFT. That's a type of ruling it out of court by definition.
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Stop channeling me better than I channel myself! ;)

To use QFT to disprove extraordinary powers, you must also prove that the extraordinary powers are impossible within the framework of existing (known) forces. That seems like an impossible task - how can you be sure you thought of every possible explanation? Don't get me wrong, QFT is a mind-blowing result, and it is a good defense against some kinds of appeals to magic. But it isn't an absolute woo-blocker.
 
Innocuous said:
Stop channeling me better than I channel myself! ;)

To use QFT to disprove extraordinary powers, you must also prove that the extraordinary powers are impossible within the framework of existing (known) forces. That seems like an impossible task - how can you be sure you thought of every possible explanation? Don't get me wrong, QFT is a mind-blowing result, and it is a good defense against some kinds of appeals to magic. But it isn't an absolute woo-blocker.
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Reminds me of superconductivity. ("Who ordered that?") Last I looked, at least part of the phenomenon remains unexplained, but no one thinks it's impossible or that it violates QFT. All we say is that we haven't yet figured out the proper application.

I kinda wish dowsing were real. I currently accept the ideomotor explanation, but wouldn't it be cool if there were physics behind it to explore?
 
It's strange. The guy cared enough about his powers to make a video, but hasn't come back to answer a single question.
 
Loss Leader said:
It's strange. The guy cared enough about his powers to make a video, but hasn't come back to answer a single question.
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I think he was looking for a friendly discussion about dowsing and some how ended up here.

As for his location, judging by his avatar name I'm guessing he is an Irishman (mick is slang for Irish?)living in Saskatchewan Canada.
 
Nakani said:
As for his location, judging by his avatar name I'm guessing he is an Irishman (mick is slang for Irish?)living in Saskatchewan Canada.
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If so, an Irishman who grew up in Landan or surrounds. I suppose there are a lot of Landaners of Irish origin. But yes, I had also assumed that Sask was Saskatchewan, but I have no idea what Saskatchewan buildings, cars, and plant life look like.

ETA: My father was a Michael (albeit never a Mick). I have never known a less Irish man. It is a common name in England.
 
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I was hoping, as I mentioned in the Welcome Thread, that he was an Irish Sasquatch.

The cars and streets and trees in Saskatchewan will look pretty much like any footage you see of the Plains states in the USA. Unless you see a Mountie or a bunch of drunken beavers singing to Stompin' Tom Connors, you won't recognize the differences.
 
Foolmewunz said:
I was hoping, as I mentioned in the Welcome Thread, that he was an Irish Sasquatch.

The cars and streets and trees in Saskatchewan will look pretty much like any footage you see of the Plains states in the USA. Unless you see a Mountie or a bunch of drunken beavers singing to Stompin' Tom Connors, you won't recognize the differences.
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IMO, this wins one whole internet.

Check yer inbox, eh?
 
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