Dowsing 4 gold

[Learjet]

...So what exactly is a "gold" coin?...

It depends on the coin in question. Sovereigns are 22 karat or 11/12ths gold with 1/12 copper or 91.67% gold. For early pre 1871 Australian sovereigns they used silver instead of copper but the purity was still 22 karat or 91.67% gold. Sovereigns weigh in at 7.9881 grams with pure gold content of 0.2354 troy oz each.

Ancient gold coins had various mixes and purity, depending on the period and how much they wanted to water it down at the time.

Modern gold bullion coins on the other hand which are commonly used in most countries are 99.9% gold. Probably a greater purity than what you would find in the field.

There are also coins of various metals that are gold plated. I only assume they would not have used these as the actual gold content is next to nothing.

I grew up on a pineapple farm where my parents brought in water dowsers. None of them found water when they drilled.

I however have a special divining rod that can detect metal in all it's forms. There is an inscription on it somewhere that looks like "minelab" or something like that. Works every time.

 

[edge]

Edge, what was the material in the containers in the JREF test and how much was there?

Tricky has posted the link but here:

Mike was to be tested for finding gold, his specialty. The target material he had chosen, and brought along with him, consisted of five quartz stones, nine "Sacagawea" dollar coins, a gold ring, a gold nugget, and a small vial containing water and a few panned flakes. He said he had always been successful in detecting each and all of these seventeen items, when his forked stick was specifically "tuned" to pick up gold — by having a small scrap of gold fastened to its tip. That's a common claim made by dowsers, that their stick/rod/pendulum is sensitive to the substance attached to it. We decided to use the entire package of seventeen items, sealed in a plastic bag, to give Mike the maximum chance of finding his target, and he affixed his gold "guider" sample to the stick to "tune" it. The total weight of his composite target was 230 grams (8.2 ounces).

Now, we knew that those dollar coins have no gold in them. They're clad in a layer of manganese brass, which is gold in color only. And, when we asked Mike if the quartz stones were supposed to contain gold — since gold most frequently occurs in association with quartz — he told us, no, but that he'd discovered that when two of the rocks were struck together in the dark, they emitted sparks — which he said was stored-up energy "which never runs out." The mineral, he told us, had a "charge" his stick would react to. (This effect is what's known as the piezoelectric effect, which makes quartz emit sparks when struck.) We didn't question his beliefs, because by the rules we should do nothing to discourage him. We just let him go on with the test.

I used everything I had at the time.
It still wasn't enough to over ride what was already in the ground, at the office, but I was right even back then to use what I had on hand, as later while I mined, years later I learned that it picks up all metals, that was something I suspected back then when I took the test.
Once every 20 years or so some one gets lucky and finds a load most people don’t find enough to run the equipment, I however was all ways able to make a living at it, that in it’s self is extraordinary since every inch of ground has been gone through pretty thoroughly.
The moneys I received were enough to live off of for months not years.
There are only one or two miners per season that can do that.
Usually it’s Carl who also dowses.

There are so many variables to dowsing it’s hard to do a controlled test, this is why I need 5 pounds or more for a target and all metals have a different pull.
Now I know they will never accept mercury as a target, since they were afraid of lime as a ballast, but for my purposes it will possibly prove it can be done successfully.

What I do have still is the tray which also worked well in SezMes’ test, but it doesn’t bottom out the scale it comes close though but leaves room for error.

I’m sure they would accept that as a target.
As far as mercury we use to find it quit often coating the gold and nuggets we found.
If it’s sealed in a container and then sealed again it’s safe.
There is one more thing I can do to the silver tray and that is to have it gold plated.
That might give it enough to have a bottoming out effect on the scale.

 

[Aoidoi]

I'm pretty sure Cash 4 Gold stole your thunder.

 

[AvalonXQ]

It still wasn't enough to over ride what was already in the ground, at the office,

If the stuff in the ground and at the office was overriding your ability to dowse, why wasn't that clear to you during the "open" tests? If you're being informed by the action of the rod and not your own perceptions, what was different during the "open" tests than during the "blind" tests that the first worked and the second didn't?

 

[Olowkow]

If the stuff in the ground and at the office was overriding your ability to dowse, why wasn't that clear to you during the "open" tests? If you're being informed by the action of the rod and not your own perceptions, what was different during the "open" tests than during the "blind" tests that the first worked and the second didn't?

http://www.randi.org/jr/032902.html

[FONT=arial, helvetica]Now, following the tests, Mike said that he'd found, all through the trials, that his stick was being "distracted" by the "gold" lettering on a double set of the Encyclopaedia Britannica on the shelves located near cups #1 and #2. Remember, he'd "tuned" his forked stick specifically to react to gold. We told him later that there was no gold in that location, either, since the book lettering is done with a bronze-powder ink. [/FONT]

I'm not sure how this answers the question, but that is what he said.

 

[Ladewig]

There are so many variables to dowsing it’s hard to do a controlled test, this is why I need 5 pounds or more for a target and all metals have a different pull.

In such a controlled test with 5 pounds of gold ($95,000 worth of gold) how close would your dowsing stick have to be to the target material for you to be sure of its presence?

 

[Paulhoff]

I'm not sure how this answers the question, but that is what he said.

It doesn't matter; all dowsers fail any real test. They will agree that before the test everything is OK with the test. They will have no trouble in finding any test material before the test and that is because they know where everything is. But as soon as the test is over or not long after that, they find something wrong with the test because they have failed. They never ever seem to learn anything from the test, outside of learning how to sidestep another one of their failures. Not once do they come to the real conclusion, and that is that dowsing does not work, and there is no reason why it should work. Another conclusion is that it is so easy for us to fool ourselves into believing what we want to believe, it is like a religion to them, so don’t confuse them with the facts, their minds are already made up.

Paul

 

[zooterkin]

Confirmation bias.

And the ideomotor effect.

 

[EHocking]

Once every 20 years or so some one gets lucky...

...and that's all you need to know about dowsing...

 

[edge]

If the stuff in the ground and at the office was overriding your ability to dowse, why wasn't that clear to you during the "open" tests? If you're being informed by the action of the rod and not your own perceptions, what was different during the "open" tests than during the "blind" tests that the first worked and the second didn't?

It was clear to me when I set the cups down in their places, trying to find neutral spots for them.
Nothing is hidden in the open test; I was to pick out the target ten times in different spots.
There were empty cups giving readings even then and they knew it as they viewed it.
I had to see how the whole test was done.

I had been in the country, (the gold fields), for about 8 years before this.
It never failed me there, which after that test kept me wondering.
So while I mined the second time for another 5 years or so till 2008 I also experimented with dowsing, trying to design a test that was more reliable.

One that optimizes the conditions and is fair.
Even as I worked out the next protocol, I still didn't have it, not until about 2007 when SezMe contacted me about clarifications on a new twist I was trying to work out with the JREF at the time about the protocol.


At my house the conditions weren’t so good, my brother and I did the test in the same manner only with 100 tries, the way they would have had me do it.
My score still wasn't that great, about 68% correct or so.

When he called me it was an opportunity to try to find a better neutral spot, and I found it there at Coffee Creek.
Since then I have found other spots even here that are neutral enough.

What makes it difficult is there is little difference between a load and a few specks.
What I was taught before the test was, it would only pick up gold, that guy was wrong; it picks up more than that.
It picks up all metals, and when you find gold everyone forgets about the iron, copper, coins, lead that’s found with the gold and mercury coated gold.

I proved all this the 2nd time I went there, when I did the dredging test.

By finding these things, like a fender and a choker cable, these were two of my misses and one hole was about 3 or 4 ounces of lead and only had 1-penny weight of gold.
They were in the ten spots I knew were losers, which I uncovered, those were my misses.

I actually spent days losing money to prove it, at the same time I was hoping I was wrong about the three spots, they were misses because I changed my mind about them and was hoping they were holding.
All the spots I picked as winners accept those three, which was eleven were winners.

The office was a stupid place for me to even try, think about what is in the slab of the office.

The test could be shorter in time, if when I pick the target, the rest of the set is a wash and the set is over, since they were complaining about the length of time.

In other words it could go like this, four empties could pass by and if I pick out the 5th as the target, which would make the other five empties, they could go to the next set of ten with a new position in the rotation for the target.

They complained about the containers needing ballast when there is one spot the containers could be covered by a box and since it is always moved each and every time a container is placed under it, it would be slightly changed, as long as the target underneath is on the X spot.

I am going to try other metals as a target but so far the mercury seems the best, I still have some experimenting to do. The mercury makes the target compact; if I use iron then the containers need to change the bulk of the target would increase.
Lead might be another possibility.


I will record the test as I go along, so all of you can see it when I am ready.
I need to know two more things.
All I know is that I had lots of fun mining and camping.


I am going to prove it to myself and it will be double blind, no matter what these guys say.
It will be yes I can or no I can’t, because I can’t think of a better test.

 

[edge]

...and that's all you need to know about dowsing...

It all depends on how you look at it, if I made 30,000 thousand one year that's not bad, the season for running the dredge is only three months per year.

If you’re talking about making a million, well then I am at a loss.
But I always find gold, what ever is there, and yes not all of it, that is impossible.
There is no way 1 person could check every inch of ground when it looks like this.

 

[edge]

In such a controlled test with 5 pounds of gold ($95,000 worth of gold) how close would your dowsing stick have to be to the target material for you to be sure of its presence?

For a controlled test it would be about three feet below me or at foot level.
I have to be over it.
Although you can scan the horizon and get a direction to go to.
None of us are going to have total control there will always be variables, because even in the field you are dealing with earth forces.
By this I mean there are variables in the ground like energy fluctuations, Changes in the electric currents flowing through the earth.
That's if it works like I think it does, fluctuations in the gravity field and electromagnetic field.
We know that's true.

 

[edge]

It doesn't matter; all dowsers fail any real test. They will agree that before the test everything is OK with the test. They will have no trouble in finding any test material before the test and that is because they know where everything is. But as soon as the test is over or not long after that, they find something wrong with the test because they have failed. They never ever seem to learn anything from the test, outside of learning how to sidestep another one of their failures. Not once do they come to the real conclusion, and that is that dowsing does not work, and there is no reason why it should work. Another conclusion is that it is so easy for us to fool ourselves into believing what we want to believe, it is like a religion to them, so don’t confuse them with the facts, their minds are already made up.

Paul

What are you popping off about?
So now your a mind reader?
What else is new.
Any way you want to go fishing one day?

 

[edge]

http://www.randi.org/jr/032902.html


I'm not sure how this answers the question, but that is what he said.

When he answered my question I knew it was on the other side of the wall.
In another room.
All that has been taken care of with my protocol..

 

[zooterkin]

There is no way 1 person could check every inch of ground when it looks like this.

Yes, what you need is some way to detect the gold remotely, without having to check every inch...

 

[Ririon]

Would it be considered evil to point out that the center of the earth is made entirely of various heavy metals? So straight down, he should get a strong signal all the time?

Anyway: If it works on all metals, for the sake of the cost of testing, I suggest using lead. It is relatively cheap (that matters), nice and heavy (if that matters) and not too far off gold in the periodic table (if that matters). It is also far easier and less dangerous to handle than mercury (that is important).

 

[Elizabeth I]

It was clear to me when I set the cups down in their places, trying to find neutral spots for them.
Nothing is hidden in the open test; I was to pick out the target ten times in different spots.
There were empty cups giving readings even then and they knew it as they viewed it.
I had to see how the whole test was done.

I had been in the country, (the gold fields), for about 8 years before this.
It never failed me there, which after that test kept me wondering.
So while I mined the second time for another 5 years or so till 2008 I also experimented with dowsing, trying to design a test that was more reliable.

One that optimizes the conditions and is fair.
Even as I worked out the next protocol, I still didn't have it, not until about 2007 when SezMe contacted me about clarifications on a new twist I was trying to work out with the JREF at the time about the protocol.


At my house the conditions weren’t so good, my brother and I did the test in the same manner only with 100 tries, the way they would have had me do it.
My score still wasn't that great, about 68% correct or so.

When he called me it was an opportunity to try to find a better neutral spot, and I found it there at Coffee Creek.
Since then I have found other spots even here that are neutral enough.

What makes it difficult is there is little difference between a load and a few specks.
What I was taught before the test was, it would only pick up gold, that guy was wrong; it picks up more than that.
It picks up all metals, and when you find gold everyone forgets about the iron, copper, coins, lead that’s found with the gold and mercury coated gold.

I proved all this the 2nd time I went there, when I did the dredging test.

By finding these things, like a fender and a choker cable, these were two of my misses and one hole was about 3 or 4 ounces of lead and only had 1-penny weight of gold.
They were in the ten spots I knew were losers, which I uncovered, those were my misses.

I actually spent days losing money to prove it, at the same time I was hoping I was wrong about the three spots, they were misses because I changed my mind about them and was hoping they were holding.
All the spots I picked as winners accept those three, which was eleven were winners.

The office was a stupid place for me to even try, think about what is in the slab of the office.

The test could be shorter in time, if when I pick the target, the rest of the set is a wash and the set is over, since they were complaining about the length of time.

In other words it could go like this, four empties could pass by and if I pick out the 5th as the target, which would make the other five empties, they could go to the next set of ten with a new position in the rotation for the target.

They complained about the containers needing ballast when there is one spot the containers could be covered by a box and since it is always moved each and every time a container is placed under it, it would be slightly changed, as long as the target underneath is on the X spot.

I am going to try other metals as a target but so far the mercury seems the best, I still have some experimenting to do. The mercury makes the target compact; if I use iron then the containers need to change the bulk of the target would increase.
Lead might be another possibility.


I will record the test as I go along, so all of you can see it when I am ready.
I need to know two more things.
All I know is that I had lots of fun mining and camping.


I am going to prove it to myself and it will be double blind, no matter what these guys say.
It will be yes I can or no I can’t, because I can’t think of a better test.

Translation: "I wasn't really doing the challenge that time, I just wanted to see how it worked. Now I've got them exactly where I want them."

 

[EHocking]

It all depends on how you look at it,...

I look at the evidence for it and find it lacking.

To the point of non-existence.

ETA : All you have wrt "evidence" for dowsing is dumb luck and confirmation bias.

 

[RoboTimbo]

For a controlled test it would be about three feet below me or at foot level.
I have to be over it.
Although you can scan the horizon and get a direction to go to.
None of us are going to have total control there will always be variables, because even in the field you are dealing with earth forces.
By this I mean there are variables in the ground like energy fluctuations, Changes in the electric currents flowing through the earth.
That's if it works like I think it does, fluctuations in the gravity field and electromagnetic field.
We know that's true.

edge, what would falsify dowsing in your mind? What would have to happen, or not happen, for you to acknowledge that dowsing doesn't work?

 

[Andy_Ross]

not finding a sample if it's 2 inches to the right?