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Don't blame the Victims

There are several suggestions for the origin of the name of Iraq; - one dates back to the Sumerian city of Uruk (or Erech). Another suggestion is that Iraq comes from the Aramaic language, meaning "the land along the banks of the rivers." Under the Persian Sassanid dynasty, there was a region called "Erak Arabi" referring to part of the south western region of the Persian Empire, which now is part of southern Iraq. Al-Iraq was the name used by the Arabs themselves for the land since the 6th century
I had heard that Al Iraq means "the mud" in the Arabic dialect of the region, but can't seem to find a reference on the net. That name strkes me as an excellent metaphor for what the future looks like there: muddy and bloody. DR
I like to think, with no real justification, that it comes from the name of the unofficial Kurdish national drink, arrak, which is a bit like Uzo but milder. Not that I ever violated General Order #1 or anything...

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Regarding al Qaeda in a post-US-withdrawal Iraq, I have to agree with DR again.

al Qaeda is not solely anti-US; we may currently be their main focus because we're trying to fight back, but they would still be fighting if the US vanished from Earth tomorrow.

They want a Caliphate. They want the Saudi regime replaced. They want the Taliban in charge of Afghanistan. The want a strict form of Sharia imposed.

Afghanistan after the Soviet withdrawal was the perfect ground for al Qaeda. Iraq after a US withdrawal will be less perfect but still favorable.
 
There are suggestions that Saudi Arabia are at least looking at aquireing nuclear weapons. That should make things ah interesting.
Sounds like a great idea to me. Iran wants nukes, so of course the Saudi leaders do as well.

Mutual Assured Destruction. The fun they can have. The sleep they'll lose at night.

Works for me.

DR
 
I like to think, with no real justification, that it comes from the name of the unofficial Kurdish national drink, arrak, which is a bit like Uzo but milder. Not that I ever violated General Order #1 or anything....

Probably related to Turkish raki, which is related to ouzo (but don't ever tell a Greek that).

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Regarding al Qaeda in a post-US-withdrawal Iraq, I have to agree with DR again.

al Qaeda is not solely anti-US; we may currently be their main focus because we're trying to fight back, but they would still be fighting if the US vanished from Earth tomorrow.

They want a Caliphate. They want the Saudi regime replaced. They want the Taliban in charge of Afghanistan. The want a strict form of Sharia imposed..

This is a point that is very often lost sight of and can probably not be overstated. Recall that the biggest bones of contention OBL had with the US were the support of corrupt regimes, by which he meant secular (not to say they aren't corrupt in our sense of the word, but OBL means they aren't Islamic states) and the stationing of US troops in Arabia - this to OBL trumps any amount of dead Iraqi babies or Palestinian collateral damage. It's the reason for his falling out with the Dar al-Saud and the big reason for 9/11 - which is why 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. He wanted to drive a wedge between the US and Riyadh.

This means that while the US is the main target of al-Qaida, its defeat isn't the ends in itself, just part of the means since it's the biggest obstacle to their goal of (for starters) a return to the Caliphate which Garratte has already mentioned. In a way, 9/11 was just tangential to what is a power struggle inside the Islamic world between modernity and barbarianism. Since Iraq was the center of the pre-Ottoman Caliphate, it's recapture from the infidels in a jihad is a duty for the most radical of the "faithful". Coalition troops are the infidels now, but tomorrow after the withdrawal, "infidel" will mean Shi'ites, the secular-minded, and "collaborators" in the Palestinian tradition. It's too bad the Bush administration was as incompetent as it was, or it would have seen this ingredient to the occupation and either not gone to war at all, or seen to it to use this to their advantage by turning Iraq into a bug-zapper for would-be jihadis. That's a whole other ball of wax though.

Afghanistan after the Soviet withdrawal was the perfect ground for al Qaeda. Iraq after a US withdrawal will be less perfect but still favorable.

If Iraq isn't, Somalia sounds like it will be very soon. I would imagine irridentist al-Qaida would prefer to be among Arabs in the traditional center of the Caliphate in Baghdad, but if they cannot, Mogadishu never seemed too hostile to them. Also, Afghanistan wasn't the first choice - OBL only went there after he wore out his welcome in the Sudan. The Horn of Africa is just his kind of place.
 
Sounds like a great idea to me. Iran wants nukes, so of course the Saudi leaders do as well.

Mutual Assured Destruction. The fun they can have. The sleep they'll lose at night.

Works for me.

DR

The problem here is that while Iranians and Saudis view each other as heretics, Saudi Arabia is still home to Makkah and Medina, and this may give the Mullahs pause before they launch a nuclear weapon into the Peninsula. Riyadh on the other hand has no such qualms - Tehran has no significance to Islamic history. It isn't even all that old. And the only holy sites in Iran are either Shi'ite or pagan, which are seen as abominations to the austere Wahhabi freakshow.

Would Iran let itself be nuked to avoid atomizing part of Arabia? It's hard to say - we're talking about a theocracy here, which isn't a glowing example of rationalism, so MAD might not be applicable. I don't know how much Ayatollah Khamenei believes his own BS, but I can safely say he doesn't particularly care too much about the well-being of his own people.

Personally, I'd like to see a secularized Iran. I like the country myself, having talked to a lot of Iranians post-9/11. I could do without their leadership, which I think belongs hanging from lamp-posts. I share your sentiments about the Saudis though - I have no use for the Kingdom or its subjects.
 
Al-Queda are sunni. The people it has been suggested we let down were shia.

The Mooj sure as hell werent all Sunni. Al Q wouldnt have a good chunk of the sympathy it does now if the shiites hadnt been mown down when we promised to help them after Desert Storm
 
al_Qaeda was quite widespread, quite active, and quite anti-US and anti-Western well before the invasion of Iraq.

Not in the same degree. More importantly a lot of the mooj was quite friendly to us and hadnt sworn such fealty to bin laden at the time
 
Not in the same degree. More importantly a lot of the mooj was quite friendly to us and hadnt sworn such fealty to bin laden at the time
The muj are not equivalent to al Qaeda. Nor are they equivalent to the Taliban.

From this link which is an excerpt of the 9/11 Commission Report:

By early 1999, al Qaeda was already a potent adversary of the United States.
 

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