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"Don't ask/Don't tell" is very stupid

Well, this time there is no Sam Nunn, Democrat, to march onto a submarine with cameras in tow and show the incredibly close, tight living quarters, including shared (time-slot) bunks, to scare the hell out of the Bible Belt.
 
i know of at least one homophobe who is clearly in the closet about his bisexuality. "fag" jokes left and right, and then he starts talking about anal sex. clearly......he proves the "homophobes tend to be closet homosexuals" theory very well.
 
i know of at least one homophobe who is clearly in the closet about his bisexuality. "fag" jokes left and right, and then he starts talking about anal sex. clearly......he proves the "homophobes tend to be closet homosexuals" theory very well.

Why does liking anal sex mean he is bi? There are lots of straight men who like anal sex from both sides.
 
Basically I wish people would already bury this "homophobes are repressed homosexuals" meme. It is just a trolling device and really doesn't add more than an insult to any discussion about homosexuality.

Except that sometimes it's true. Not all the time, but sometimes.
 
Why does liking anal sex mean he is bi? There are lots of straight men who like anal sex from both sides.

:confused::confused:

:p:p

he discusses anal sex, within the context of man-on-man...not man-on-woman.

anyways, to me it makes a hell of a lot of sense, that compulsive, angry, homophobes..are in fact at the very least...highly insecure about their own sexuality...or more likely....in the closet about their own homosexual feelings.
 
What are people's responses here to the claim that they don't allow women and men to share showers together so they shouldn't allow gays to serve openly for the same shower-related reason?

I suppose the example of firemen (Who presumably shower together) could be used. Their cohesion hasn't fallen apart.

Well, it doesn't just go into unit cohesion. Men and women not sharing showers is more of a cultural construct than it is a practical one, and is also a remnant of religious upbringing. However, along those lines it's worth taking the example you already gave (firemen) and also add police and/or EMS to the mix of public/private service where while there isn't exactly men and women showering together at the same time, there is plenty of sharing of the same showering and locker facilities that goes on with little or no disruption to cohesion, no disruption of operations, and if accounts on the troubles women are facing in the warzone is accurate less outright harassment and mistreatment than what currently goes on in the armed forces. However, whether this is directly connected to the gender separation required in the military or there are other factors at play is debatable-- in other words, I don't know that it's a slam-dunk argument for or against gays sharing showers with straight folk.

What I just don't get is why bigotry and prejudice ("Most of the military are conservatives" say the Repubs) is rewarded.

This is because of the characterization of the Republican (or politically conservative) principles as being more overtly "aggressive" than its counterparts, and the cultural attribution of aggression and dominance as distinctly male qualities. At least, that's the impression I tend to get upon observation.
 
Except that sometimes it's true. Not all the time, but sometimes.

Given a sample of 6 billion humans, you can find an example of almost any kind of contradiction. Gay homophobes, jewish anti-semites, self-proclaimed libertarians in favour of more government regulation, mysoginistic women, etc. It hardly warrants the kind of generalization to a rule that says "X are actually Y".
 
Given a sample of 6 billion humans, you can find an example of almost any kind of contradiction. Gay homophobes, jewish anti-semites, self-proclaimed libertarians in favour of more government regulation, mysoginistic women, etc. It hardly warrants the kind of generalization to a rule that says "X are actually Y".

But is it more often false than it is true? I'd be willing to wager that there are more closet-case homophobes than there are anti-semitic Jews. Certainly the ones who have gay sex on the brain all the time.
 
I'm very sorry, but extreme homophobia is caused by sexual insecurity, or closeted homosexual feelings. I cannot imagine any other reasons for holding such angry feelings due to the sexuality of another person.

Men in our society...are raised to be strong and powerful. Homosexuality..threatens that sense of dominance and sexual strength..in insecure men. This is clear as day.

Show me a secure, sexually confident and successful man, who is an extreme homophobe......and I will show you a pig with wings.
 
I listened to a Republican congressman (and ex-marine) on NPR's All Things Considered tonight talking about why Don't Ask Don't Tell should be retained.
He stammered and stuttered and essentially made no sense at all.
He went on about "close quarters" for combat troops and "showers and bathrooms"....
The interviewer gently prodded him..."Acknowledged that there are at present gay troops in the military, and they are in these situations right now....."

The congressman thought it would be worse if they were "open".


Hilarious. Why do straight men in the army have trouble sleeping in the same room with gays and showering with them and later sleeping in the same tent with them? At least according to this fellow (if I have his argument down straight). What do they think will happen, they will see their two gay roommates making out? Is their problem that they have to undress in front of gays? What is it?

If a gay guy hits on you, say no. That's all you have to do. That's it. The same as you'd say to a woman you aren't interested in.

Alexander the Great's army was full of poofs. Alexander made out with a eunuch in the middle of a campaign while his troops cheered him on. And they still won battles.

At Parky- my uncle and cousin snort, giggle and make faces whenever homosexuals and transexuals are even mentioned and often refer to them as "perverts". My uncle is a successful lawyer and is married with two children and his son is a successful civil servant who graduated from law school and is married to a very attractive blond woman who is also a lawyer. The entire family is quite devoutly Catholic though I know my uncle's wife and cousin's is pro-choice and supports a liberal party. They also live in Poland, where homosexuality is still a touchy subject. They may not be extreme homophobes but my cousin and uncle are homophobes for sure.
 
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Speaking as a current member of the US Military, I have to say I think DADT is one of the stupidest policies ever enacted in the military, for several reasons.

One, a soldier being gay is not going to affect the other soldiers in the unit as much, because of the fraternization policy, which highly discourages if not outright forbids relationships within the same unit (depending on the chain of command between the two soldiers). If, for instance, it was a platoon sergeant and one of the soldiers in his/her platoon, it would be forbidden due to the fact that the platoon sergeant would have nominal command over the soldier, but even if it's a platoon sergeant from one platoon and a soldier from another, there's still an issue because of the rank difference; the platoon sergeant is still nominally in charge of the soldier simply by virtue of rank regardless of the platoon they're in. If it's two soldiers, there's a bit more leeway, but they still forbid it if they're from the same platoon, if I understand the regs correctly. Different platoons within the same company is allowed, but still highly discouraged because of the school of thought that it would be difficult for you to see your loved one potentially going out on patrol to risk their life and could impact your morale and ability to do your job. And if it's an officer and a soldier/NCO; don't even let the thought cross your mind for a split second, because you'd be out so fast your head would spin. I'm aware that there are marriages between an officer and an NCO out there, but if you dig a little deeper you typically find that the marriage occurred when the officer of the pair was an NCO and decided later to go through ROTC or OCS and became commissioned as a result, so it doesn't violate the reg. So the notion that the gay soldiers of the unit would suddenly begin molesting the straight members of the unit simply because they were allowed to be open about their sexual preferences is a fallacious assumption that anyone with half a brain would realize is utterly stupid.

Two, the Army is extremely strict about sexual harrassment of any kind. It doesn't matter if it's an officer on an enlisted, NCO, warrant officer, or another officer, or any combination of the above; it is absolutely NOT tolerated. I realize it isn't reported as often as the Army would like, and often the soldier who does report it feels as though they are being persecuted by other members of the unit as a result, but that is what EO complaints are for, and harassment, either verbal or physical, against a soldier that reported sexual harrassment of some kind will NEVER be tolerated if the command structure does its job properly. So a gay soldier hassling a straight soldier about getting together for some "fun" would fall under the reg same as a straight soldier hassling another straight soldier about getting together for some "fun"; either way, it's not tolerated. Contrary to what some die-hard homophobes may believe, gay people are not trying to force their way of thinking on the rest of us; so as long as you make it clear you are not interested, and follow that up with a report if the gay soldier persists in hassling you, there should be no issue, same as if it were a straight soldier doing the hassling.

Three, I'm well aware that there may be some people in the military who do not like the notion of serving with gays, but that does not mean that they will automatically attack a gay soldier in the unit. Physical or verbal abuse is tolerated about as much as sexual harrassment in the Army; that is to say, not at all. If a gay soldier feels persecuted, they would be able to file an EO complaint same as a straight soldier, and would if necessary be able to take it to trial with JAG of the soldier(s) performing the abuse. If a group of soldiers forgot themselves so much as to actually harm a gay soldier, that is why we have the UCMJ in addition to being subject to federal and state laws as well. The soldiers who caused harm to another simply because they didn't like the sexual orientation of the harmed soldier would have violated several articles of the UCMJ, not to mention violated hate crime laws in the civilian world, and could possibly be tried under both jurisdictions if the military and civilian courts deemed it feasible and just to do so.

I'm not saying it would be easy; it would hardly be a smooth adjustment to make, and like all adjustments, there would be hiccups until things were smoothed out, but the notion that some people have that it would disrupt the workings of the military to allow openly gay soldiers in is just plain stupid. I'm not gay, and I'd be all for it. I hope it does get repealed, along with the outdated notion of chivalry the Army seems to have when it comes to women in the service; I'm tired of the notion that simply because we're women we can't serve in the Infantry or Armor branches. I don't personally want to serve in either, but I'm well aware that there are women in the Army that are both physically and mentally capable of doing so, so this archaic notion that women are unable to meet the physical demands of either of those branches is, to me, utterly stupid. We already have to meet certain physical standards to get into those branches to begin with; if a woman meets those standards and wants to serve in either of the branches, I say let her!

Sorry for the slight derail, but I trust you see where I'm coming from here. There are several other countries in the world that have gays openly serving that have few or no issues, and it's pretty darned obvious to everyone that we already have gays serving in the US military right now, they just can't openly speak about it or risk getting kicked out. We're already stretched thin on resources, and excluding people from serving solely on the basis of something that should have no bearing on their physical or mental capabilities is bloody stupid, in my opinion.
 
1. People's behaviour is more shaped by their environment, entourage, culture, than any simplistic explanations like that. Groupthink runs deep in this spirit. People raised in a culture which (they think) values bigotted bible-thumping above all else, and they'll bible-thump with the best of them. In a culture (usually the same bible-thumping kind) where they think they're supposed to be rabid homophobes, will act like rabid homophobes.

2. For some it's really just a matter of getting attention, i.e., RL trolling.

3. You do realize, I hope, that for those who take the NT literally, it's possible to _become_ gay. E.g., check out Paul's 1 Romans chapter 1, where idolatry and not keeping faith in God basically puts some people on a slippery slope with homosexuality at its end.

For you or me it makes no sense to worry that exposure to it will turn us gay, because we know it doesn't work that way. But some guys' literal interpretation of the Bible says, quite literally, that you can become gay. In fact, that if you let your guard down and your faith slip, one day you'll find out that your wife ran away with another woman, while you find yourself longing for that muscular and tanned guy next door.

It's a lot less inexplicable and irrational a fear than you seem to think. Well, or at least once you get past the irrationality of taking a fairy tale literally, it doesn't take any more irrationality for that ;)

4. Culture and community again. Living in a bigotted, homophobic comunity would make me scared too of the possibility of one day finding out I'm gay. Even if otherwise I wasn't getting any urges in that direction.

Basically a lot of those guys who got their willy hooked to the machine and shown gay porn, would be scared ****less that they might show up as gay and be shunned or even hated by their community for it. Which ironically would be undistinguishable from "aroused" on that machine.
 
I am anxiously awaiting the following strawman arguments:

-so being anti-Jewish means you are a closet Jew?

-being anti-black means you have black ancestors?

-being anti-Asian means you are really Chinese?

-being a misogynist means you are secretly a woman?

:p

and btw, we are not talking about your average American typical occasional homophobe. we are talking about obsessive homophobes, those who can't get it off their mind, those who harrasse and even attack assumed homosexuals.
 
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Sorry for the slight derail, but I trust you see where I'm coming from here.

Nothing to be sorry about, in my estimation. Everything you said was dead-on applicable to the subject (and I agree completely).

What's most ridiculous about the DADT proponents is that they somehow seem to think that the UCMJ and fraternization rules (which vary between branches, I believe) somehow won't apply to gays in the military. Thanks for bringing that up, as I forgot to point that out in my last post.
 
Nothing to be sorry about, in my estimation. Everything you said was dead-on applicable to the subject (and I agree completely).

What's most ridiculous about the DADT proponents is that they somehow seem to think that the UCMJ and fraternization rules (which vary between branches, I believe) somehow won't apply to gays in the military. Thanks for bringing that up, as I forgot to point that out in my last post.

Oh good God; seriously? They actually believe that? Why? The UCMJ and fraternization rules apply across the entire service; the language is pretty simplistic and covers both sexes very well; simply changing the sexual orientation of someone doesn't make it apply any less. There is absolutely nothing to indicate otherwise; how on earth did they get this notion?
 
and btw, we are not talking about your average American typical occasional homophobe. we are talking about obsessive homophobes, those who can't get it off their mind, those who harrasse and even attack assumed homosexuals.
Going by that analogy, it wouldn't mean that an anti-jewish does not mean you're a closeted jew, it means the anti-jewish is not secure in his own faith.
Just like a homophobe is not secured about his own sexuality...

But basically you're also assuming that there is something different between one form of bigotry than others. I don't think there need to be.

If you can brainwash someone to hate jews, blacks or whatever, why would sexual orientation make a difference?
 

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