Donna (Ghost Hunters) admits evidence was staged

[Minarvia]

You're right, GanipGanop, I don't know how IRT works. I just said what I think "they" think it does. But I don't know. Thanks for explaining it, tho. And I commend them for trying, sort of, but since they never find anything year after year they are obviously in it for the money.

I wasn't defending them, but just saying how they think they "use" their scientific equipment.

 

[GanipGnop]

Knowledge is Power

You're right, GanipGanop, I don't know how IRT works. I just said what I think "they" think it does. But I don't know. Thanks for explaining it, tho. And I commend them for trying, sort of, but since they never find anything year after year they are obviously in it for the money.

I wasn't defending them, but just saying how they think they "use" their scientific equipment.

Then your statement "I think they use the infrared thermometers" was a poor choice of words on your part in the OP. The tone of your OP wasn't "this is what these guys think" you seemed to be speaking from a position of authority.

But that's cool, I'm just pointing out how what "they" think is very probably wrong. I could see you didn't realize how an IRT works so I wanted to make a point of doing something the ghost "experts" NEVER do which is explaining how one does. I use them at work so I know their limitations but a simple search of the internet can find the same information. All the same you're welcome for the explanation, dispelling myth is part of my mission.

And so I still wait for someone to explain the hard science behind Ghost Hunters equipment and techniques in detail. Please, no assumptions or guesses or this is what they think. Hard science only PLEASE!

 

[Minarvia]

Okay, you're right and now I see what you're getting at. I thought when you said "Jason and Grant never do" you meant that they never said anything but just waved their equipment around (well, which is what they do!) and never give an explanation of what they are attempting. And you're right that my wording was poor. I suppose my only authority is that I occasionally watch their show and that is what they say their scientific methods are.

They have no "hard science." Absolutely not.

I'll wait with you for the hard science. This isn't the first time I misunderstood someone's post. Sorry! I won't derail again!

 

[stephenenelson]

Over on Skeptical Viewer, we've amassed a number of incidents that raise our suspicions of TAPS. There's no smoking gun, but there's an overpowering aroma of gunsmoke. Most of their equipment has no logical link to ghosts. There is no reason to think that a ghost would appear on a FLIR (forward-looking infrared... sorry, their terms, not mine...) camera.

In fact, since I have yet to see any definition of what a ghost is physically, I have no reason to think that a ghost would have any physical effects at all.

 

[GanipGnop]

Gunsmoke So Thick You Can't See

Over on Skeptical Viewer, we've amassed a number of incidents that raise our suspicions of TAPS. There's no smoking gun, but there's an overpowering aroma of gunsmoke. Most of their equipment has no logical link to ghosts. There is no reason to think that a ghost would appear on a FLIR (forward-looking infrared... sorry, their terms, not mine...) camera.

In fact, since I have yet to see any definition of what a ghost is physically, I have no reason to think that a ghost would have any physical effects at all.

Just to clarify to the best of my understanding they have used both IRT (simple IR thermometer) and FLIR (thermographic imaging) technology on various episodes but you're right they are both based on the same premise; they can only detect heat radiating from surfaces that can be seen. I looked over the site you mentioned and they have a pretty good argument that some GH FLIR images were doctored to give the impression of mysterious temperature change.

http://www.skepticalviewer.com/doctored-manson-flir/

As for the physical attributes of ghosts I agree, that is one of my main problem with just about every paranormal investigation they are based purely on unproven assumptions and supposition. Compare a official TAPS technical introduction on EMF meters:

http://www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/articles/technical/emfintro.html

To an ACTUAL technical explanation of EMF meters by someone familiar with its actual operations and limitations especially in regards to ghost hunting. ASSAP actually uses the scientific method to investigate paranormal claims. I guess that's why they don't have a TV show, real science can be boring.

http://www.assap.org/newsite/articles/Ghosts EMF meters and baselines.html

ASSAP also has an explanation of magnetic hallucinations based on scientific research but they make it clear it doesn't effect everyone and it hasn't been proven in the field yet. They also make it clear that you can't detect the EMF responsible without very specialized detection equipment known as MADS. If they do prove this phenomenon in the field it could help explain away a lot of paranormal claims without a need for Woo.

http://www.assap.org/newsite/articles/Magnetic ghosts.html

I mean if two plumbers can't explain something then ghosts could exist? That could happen but then again it could just as likely they have Star Wars midichlorians in their blood stream that they don't know how to control.

 

[Eyeron]

Religion is rigid and sterile, dismisses possibilities.

I'm glad that I don't have to wrap my head in tin foil at night, in order to keep the possibilities out.

How sad for them.

 

[Penamunde]

Science is ridgid and sterile, dismisses posibilities.

I'm glad that I don't have to wrap my head in plastic at night, in order to keep the possibilities out.

How sad for them.

Ok, we'll add religion to that statement as well.

 

[twistor59]

Science is ridgid and sterile, dismisses posibilities.

I'm glad that I don't have to wrap my head in plastic at night, in order to keep the possibilities out.

How sad for them.

The science that I know and love brought us general relativity, quantum mechanics, gauge theories. Neither rigid nor sterile. Maybe you were just having a laugh !?

 

[bozman]

There are some pretty good youtube videos that do a good job exposing Ghost Hunters silliness. When I watched some of "mistakes" that their own cameras caught (like a confused guest host telling Grant and the other guy he heard the EVP voice from their recorder patched into his headphones before it was even "caught" during an investigation, or the bald guy nonchalantly installing a string on Grant's jacket which was later be "pulled" by a ghost) it seemed pretty obvious that they're outright hoaxers, and bad ones at that.

 

[Minarvia]

And these fakers/silly people are teaching a "new generation" how to properly for non-existent entities.

I get the biggest kick out of Steve who says spiders and flying frighten but not ghosts. Wow, could that be because he knows there AREN'T any?

 

[bozman]

And these fakers/silly people are teaching a "new generation" how to properly for non-existent entities.

I get the biggest kick out of Steve who says spiders and flying frighten but not ghosts. Wow, could that be because he knows there AREN'T any?

Yeah but in his defense, spiders are kinda scary. Ever watch the spider scene from the original "The Fly" where that guy is caught in that huge web? Still freaks me out.

Ghosts, on the other hand, are apparently only interested in doing stuff like creating cold spots in rooms or draining battery power from handheld heat sensing cameras. That's not so bad.

 

[Minarvia]

Yeah but in his defense, spiders are kinda scary. Ever watch the spider scene from the original "The Fly" where that guy is caught in that huge web? Still freaks me out.

Ghosts, on the other hand, are apparently only interested in doing stuff like creating cold spots in rooms or draining battery power from handheld heat sensing cameras. That's not so bad.

Yep, spiders ARE scary. I am afraid of them. Well, most kinds I am.

But ghosts...like you said, what do they ever really do? According to the worst claims they scratch people. But that's it? If they exist and do just that, it's sort of impressive but not really that bad. After all, I get scratched by my dogs every day. Big whoop. It doesn't mean they scare me.

Well, at least Ghost Hunters haven't yet tried out the "Frank's Box" like some shows do. That is so dumb and annoying.

Oh, and I guess only ghosts in England, ala "Most Haunted" throw stones and hurl chairs and possess people in the group. Are U.S. ghosts retarded?

 

[jhunter1163]

I'm WAY more scared of spiders than I am of ghosts. Spiders exist. Ghosts don't.

 

[Denver]

And these fakers/silly people are teaching a "new generation" how to properly for non-existent entities.

I get the biggest kick out of Steve who says spiders and flying frighten but not ghosts. Wow, could that be because he knows there AREN'T any?

I have strong expectations for this new Ghost Hunter Academy to reach new heights of stupidity.

Here's this Steve guy, whose techniques and skills have never enabled him to see or record anything approaching paranormal, and whose understanding of ghosts and science can be summarized in a short "tutorial" he once gave Tango:

(on why EMF detectors detect ghosts)

Steve: "What are Ghosts?"
Tango: "Energy?"
Steve (waving an EMF detector around): "What does this detect?"
Tango: "Energy!"

And now Steve and Tango are using their "experience" to teach a new group? Even if ghosts do exist, and considering Steve and Tango's "evidence" so far, then from a practical perspective, if these new guys want to have a better chance of finding a ghost, they should listen carefully to everything that Steve and Tango tell them, and do the opposite!

 

[Minarvia]

I'm WAY more scared of spiders than I am of ghosts. Spiders exist. Ghosts don't.

Yep. And spiders can kill you.

Houdini summed up my feelings about "ghosts" when he said that if they are real than all they can do are parlour tricks and flap-doodle stunts?

Ooooooohhh....scary!


And about the new groups "learning" how to hunt ghosts...yep. Do the opposite. No modern ghost hunting group has come up with ANYTHING. Do your own thing, kids, and if there is something to find than maybe YOU will find it. Not them.