Does Romney understand the concept of truth?

RandFan

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RandFan
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Mitt Romney versus Reality



I'm under no illusions. Politicians lie. I'm sure someone can reel off a list for Obama. And I would like to see such a list if anyone has one for comparison purposes. I'm certainly not immune to confirmation bias.

But Romney does it so often, so blatant, sometimes I wonder. Some people actually believe their lies. Does Romney believe this stuff or is he just so willing to say absolutely anything to get elected?
 
Did you hear his latest attack on Obama, that Obama had "spent too much time at Harvard?"

Mitt has two degrees from Harvard and three of his sons have degrees from Harvard.

More on this:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...4-romneys-misguided-bashing-of-his-alma-mater

No matter what the criticisms of President Obama, can you ever imagine him saying "Mitt Romney should have spent less time Community Organzing" or anything else as blatantly hypocritical as this?
 
Unabogie said:
Did you hear his latest attack on Obama, that Obama had "spent too much time at Harvard?"

Mitt has two degrees from Harvard and three of his sons have degrees from Harvard.

More on this:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...4-romneys-misguided-bashing-of-his-alma-mater

No matter what the criticisms of President Obama, can you ever imagine him saying "Mitt Romney should have spent less time Community Organzing" or anything else as blatantly hypocritical as this?
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Yep.

Also, Rachell Maddow has a great analysis of the many instances when he projects his own weaknesses on Obama. Apparently it's a Karl Rove strategy. Most on the right don't care to watch Maddow but I think her case pretty solid. I do have an issue with at least one of her examples but it's pretty good otherwise.
 
Tricky (I think) posted a chart of the truthfulness of Obama and the Republican candidates a week or so ago. I didn't see any surprises.

Yes, here's the link.
 
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DavidJames said:
Tricky (I think) posted a chart of the truthfulness of Obama and the Republican candidates a week or so ago. I didn't see any surprises.

Yes, here's the link.
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If it's from Tricky then it's not worth the digital data it's stored on.
 
DavidJames said:
Tricky (I think) posted a chart of the truthfulness of Obama and the Republican candidates a week or so ago. I didn't see any surprises.

Yes, here's the link.
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I think it's worth posting it here in this thread. That is exactly what I wanted for comparison purposes.

Tricky said:
Here's a summary from PolitFact on the remaining candidates:
Candidate | True or Mostly True | Half True | False, Mostly False or PoF | Pants on Fire | Number of Rulings Romney| 33.88% |26.45% |39.67% |10.74%|121 Santorum| 20.93% |27.91% |51.16% |9.30%|43 Paul| 41.67% |22.22% |36.11% |8.33%|36 Gingrich| 19.67% |21.31% |59.02% |16.39%|61 Obama| 46.59% |24.72% |28.69% |1.42%|352
PoF = 'pants on fire'

Not a big surprise. Gingrich is the biggest liar, followed by Santorum. Obama is the most honest, followed by Ron Paul.
Gingrich is by far the most likely to tell a whopper, while Obama is overwhelmingly better at eschewing fish stories.
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Of course as well all know PolitFact is a liberal organization or...
  • Carefully examining the lies will show Romney's lies are simply little white "whoops" while...
  • Obama's are whoppers leading us straight to European socialist hell or...
  • The results show all of them lie so the numbers don't matter
 
RandFan said:
Mitt Romney versus Reality



I'm under no illusions. Politicians lie. I'm sure someone can reel off a list for Obama. And I would like to see such a list if anyone has one for comparison purposes. I'm certainly not immune to confirmation bias.

But Romney does it so often, so blatant, sometimes I wonder. Some people actually believe their lies. Does Romney believe this stuff or is he just so willing to say absolutely anything to get elected?
Click to expand...

You’re making the assumption Obama is telling the truth. This video was obviously put out by lying Democrats.
 
Unabogie said:
Did you hear his latest attack on Obama, that Obama had "spent too much time at Harvard?"

Mitt has two degrees from Harvard and three of his sons have degrees from Harvard.

More on this:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...4-romneys-misguided-bashing-of-his-alma-mater

No matter what the criticisms of President Obama, can you ever imagine him saying "Mitt Romney should have spent less time Community Organzing" or anything else as blatantly hypocritical as this?
Click to expand...

Obama spent too little time at Harvard. There is no evidence he attended any of his classes. The Marxist professors simply waved him onto graduation.
 
MaGZ said:
Obama spent too little time at Harvard. There is no evidence he attended any of his classes. The Marxist professors simply waved him onto graduation.
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Now you get it. That's exactly the kind of BS Romney has been spouting. Good example.
 
Let's start with #1, since it's rather instructive:

Romney: "He went around the world and apologized for America."

Obama: "We will not apologize for our way of life."

Obama's statement comes during his inaugural address, well before anybody would have claimed that he started an apology tour. But there are certainly statements that Obama made that could be construed as apologetic, and indeed, many liberals would claim that the USA has much to apologize for. As an example of the former, consider this:


Now it's true that Obama did not use the world apology or apologize but what is the meaning of the word "apology"?

a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another:
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Now maybe you think that Obama meant something different when he said, "There have been times when America has show arrogance..." Maybe he was not expressing regret, remorse or sorrow. Maybe he meant to go on and say, "There have been times when American has show arrogance, and why shouldn't we, when Europe is populated by such a bunch of weenies?"

But to me, the idea that Obama has not apologized for America is only slightly less amusing than the idea that liberals think he shouldn't.
 
Brainster said:
Let's start with #1, since it's rather instructive:

Romney: "He went around the world and apologized for America."

Obama: "We will not apologize for our way of life."
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Which tell me that Mittens doesn't think we have ever been wrong.

I see Hannity is as afraid as any republicon of Obama's words set in any kind of context. It looked to me like the first clip was his speech in Cairo, which was really brilliant and inspiring to those of us who want to bring this country back on track.

Now maybe you think that Obama meant something different when he said, "There have been times when America has show arrogance..."
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Well, freaking DUH! Like most of 2001-2008.

Maybe he was not expressing regret, remorse or sorrow. Maybe he meant to go on and say, "There have been times when American has show arrogance, and why shouldn't we, when Europe is populated by such a bunch of weenies?"
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Somebody does need to apologize to the world for what Bush the Lesser and his merry morons did to the Middle East and Afghanistan. We have some work to do that we can't do by ourselves, and those who would assist us need to know that we are not going to play Drop-the-Soap with them.

But to me, the idea that Obama has not apologized for America is only slightly less amusing than the idea that liberals think he shouldn't.
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Well, of course we need not apologize for our culture. The GOP is something else again.
 
Brainster said:
But there are certainly statements that Obama made that could be construed as apologetic, and indeed, many liberals would claim that the USA has much to apologize for. As an example of the former, consider this:

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It's remarkable anyone could criticise that. Well, it is Hannity I suppose.
 
Brainster said:
Now it's true that Obama did not use the world apology or apologize but what is the meaning of the word "apology"?
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Nonsense.

Now maybe you think that Obama meant something different when he said, "There have been times when America has show arrogance..."
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Let me see if I understand you. American leaders are supposed to pretend that we've never made mistakes? Be honest with me here, are a few statements of humility and honesty the equivalent of going around he world apologizing? I sure don't think so.

And that's all you got? That's your grand rebuttal? For sake of argument let's grant you the premise that Obama has once or twice included in his speeches statements that can be construed as apologetic. I think you need much, much more to make Romney's statement remotely true.

Can we be honest and demonstrate just a little bit of humility, we've made mistakes. There is diplomatic value to admit past mistakes. If the crux of three or more speeches had been apologetic then I would consider Romney's statement somewhat true. They were not.

Let's start with #1, since it's rather instructive:
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It's not remotely instructive. It's sifting through entire speeches and gleaning out a couple instances of honesty and humility.
 
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Brainster said:
Now maybe you think that Obama meant something different when he said, "There have been times when America has show arrogance..." Maybe he was not expressing regret, remorse or sorrow. Maybe he meant to go on and say, "There have been times when American has show arrogance, and why shouldn't we, when Europe is populated by such a bunch of weenies?"

But to me, the idea that Obama has not apologized for America is only slightly less amusing than the idea that liberals think he shouldn't.
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According to the definition you provided, an apology expressed to another that one has harmed. Who, specifically, do you think Obama was apologizing to and for what harm?

Do not confuse acknowledging one's own human foibles and ability to make mistakes with apologizing for them. (Although, I'm not quite certain why apologizing for mistakes is a bad thing. It seems rather what adults ought to do.)

I don't think you've supported your point.
 
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