Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Roger Ramjets]

You may be right. But victims shouldn't be expected to automatically open up in hostile environments.

A hostile environment qualifies as rape culture in my book.

The OP identifies a part of underground porn as rape culture. But that is limited to the fringes of society. Producers are hunted down and jailed, and knowing consumers also face prosecution. They are not tolerated any more than other criminals.

The acceptance of rape in mainstream society is far more troubling. In the US we have a former (and possibly future) president, and a supreme court judge who are both known rapists, but 50% of the country doesn't care because they are their guys. Attempts to prosecute them or even just acknowledge their unsuitability for office have resulted in extreme backlash on the victims. That's a society with a rape culture.

Rape culture

Rape culture is a setting, as described by some sociological theories, in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to that setting's attitudes about gender and sexuality. Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, slut-shaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by sexual violence, or some combination of these.

In such an environment expecting victims to 'open up' about their experience is just another way to intimidate them. The treatment they receive helps to silence other rape victims, to the benefit of all the other rapists out there (of which there are a lot!).

 

[novaphile]

The 'underage' thing may vary country by country.

Americans watching legal porn from Europe may be committing an illegal act in the USA.

Age of consent laws vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction,[1] though most jurisdictions set the age of consent in the range 14 to 18 (with the exceptions of Argentina, Niger and Western Sahara which set the age of consent for 13, Mexico which sets the age of consent between 12 and 18, and 14 Muslim states and the Vatican City that set the consent by marriage only).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

It's a long time since I had to read the legislation here in Australia*, but when I did, I was surprised that any depiction of a person under the age of consent, including adults pretending to be younger, was considered to be 'child pornography'.

Depiction also included cartoons, comics etc. where no person exists at all.

Violent pornography is also illegal here, so any depiction of sexual violence (including bondage) or rape is forbidden (refused classification) and so can not be legally sold. And again, acting scared, acted violence etc. falls under that non-classification.

Having said that, it's my understanding that material which has been refused classification is readily available, and purveyors are rarely prosecuted.



* University assignment in 1999, in a subject regarding interpretation of legislation.

 

[Brainster]

Rape culture

Rape culture is a setting, as described by some sociological theories, in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to that setting's attitudes about gender and sexuality. Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, slut-shaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by sexual violence, or some combination of these.

Anybody really think rape is pervasive and normalized in the US or indeed much of Western society? I do love the bit about slut-shaming; who exactly shames sluts? Answer: other women. And denial of widespread rape is a "when did you stop beating your wife," bit extended to the culture in general--either you acknowledge widespread rape, in which case rape culture pretty obviously, or you deny it, in which case rape culture.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

People in the right-wing mainstream culture like Jordan Peterson are working hard to normalize Rape Culture.

And, of course, the Christian idea of The Family is based entirely on the Man getting to demand sex whenever he wants.
many Evangelical groups still preach that women have to shut up when a man is talking and give him lots of babies.

And what do you call a Supreme Court and State Court decision that forces a woman have things done with her body that she doesn't want?

 

[Darat]

The 'underage' thing may vary country by country.

Americans watching legal porn from Europe may be committing an illegal act in the USA.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

It's a long time since I had to read the legislation here in Australia*, but when I did, I was surprised that any depiction of a person under the age of consent, including adults pretending to be younger, was considered to be 'child pornography'.
Depiction also included cartoons, comics etc. where no person exists at all.
Violent pornography is also illegal here, so any depiction of sexual violence (including bondage) or rape is forbidden (refused classification) and so can not be legally sold. And again, acting scared, acted violence etc. falls under that non-classification.

Having said that, it's my understanding that material which has been refused classification is readily available, and purveyors are rarely prosecuted.



* University assignment in 1999, in a subject regarding interpretation of legislation.

Australia is probably the most puritanical of all the anglosphere in regards to depictions of sex and violence.

In regards to the highlighted section that tends to be the norm in many countries, which does of course mean customers should be careful. But don't forget that "child porn" is not really about post-puberty children it is about pre-puberty children, babies, infants, toddlers and so on so there is no way a consumer of such can claim they thought it was adults acting younger etc.

 

[Darat]

Anybody really think rape is pervasive and normalized in the US or indeed much of Western society?

Pervasive - absolutely. Normalised - yes, look at one of your ex-presidents, we know he raped one of his wives and raped another woman. Indeed his lawyer when it was revealed he had raped his wife sought to claim that a husband couldn't rape his wife. Spousal rape has only been criminalised in many western countries for a few decades at the most. To expect that normalisation to have dissipated in just a few decades, with many people who were raised in such societies still alive and playing meaningful roles in the governance of societies is to me a very naive view of soceital changes. There is also then the matter of the many different cultures all under the same societal umbrella, many cultures certainly haven't accepted the "modern" view of a woman's agency never mind accepted "modern" concepts of rape.

I do love the bit about slut-shaming; who exactly shames sluts? Answer: other women.

As do men - but not sure what your point is with that put to one side? What does it matter which sex/gender does the "slut shaming"?

And denial of widespread rape is a "when did you stop beating your wife," bit extended to the culture in general--either you acknowledge widespread rape, in which case rape culture pretty obviously, or you deny it, in which case rape culture.

Nope.

 

[Poem]

I'd say a rape culture produced the videos in question. I wouldn't say that because some of those videos can be found on Pornhub, therefore a rape culture exists everywhere Pornhub can be found.

You're painting with a very broad brush, leading you to conclude that literally everyone around you harbors rape culture in their hearts and minds, and is likely a crypto-rapist.

That's probably not a healthy way to go through life, if you don't actually live in an actual rape culture.

So no, to answer the question in your thread title: Yes, 'rape culture' as you're defining it accurately describes many societies, but your definition of 'rape culture' is far too broad to be useful.

It's Wikipedia's definition - but clearly, no, not everyone is a 'crypto-rapist'. Here's Rape Crisis's definition:

"...a culture where sexual violence and abuse is normalised and played down. Where it is accepted, excused, laughed off or not challenged enough by society as a whole. Rape culture is also a culture where some people are making money, or benefitting in some other way, from this normalisation of sexual violence and abuse." (My emphasis)

We know that Pornhub hosts illegal material - so we just need to know how many people are accessing their site. According to sexualalpha:

"Pornhub, XVideos, and XNXX are the world’s top 3 porn sites and have a combined total of over 5.81 billion site visits per month. Every minute, the top 3 porn sites receive 134,491 visits. Web traffic monitoring tools suggest that users spend an average of 18 minutes on the sites. In 2018, there were 109,012,068,000 videos watched on Pornhub – more than 14 videos per person on the planet. Over 5,824,699,200 hours of porn were watched on Pornhub in 2018. That’s nearly 665 centuries of content on one site in just one year. In 2018, Pornhub saw 63,992 new visitors per minute and 33.5 billion total visitors that year."

The BBC reports that:
"Half of all UK adults watch porn...The most popular site was Pornhub, accessed by 15 million people in Ofcom's snapshot survey from September 2020. That figure is made up of 50% of men in the UK and 16% of women."

So that's just the adults.

According to PR Newswire:

"SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 10, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Today, Common Sense Media released a new research report that confirms some startling truths about how teens engage with pornography. The report, "Teens and Pornography," found that 73% of teen respondents age 13 to 17 have watched pornography online—and more than half (54%) reported first seeing pornography by the time they reached the age of 13. And, for better or worse, online pornography is shaping their views about sex and sexual relationships, as nearly half (45%) of teen respondents said that they felt online pornography gives "helpful" information about sex."

Is anyone suggesting that those watching Pornhub don't know they will almost certainly end up watching real rapes and thus fuelling the traffickers who profit from this?

 

[Poem]

According to unwomen:

Globally, an estimated 736 million women—almost one in three—have been subjected to physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence, non-partner sexual violence, or both at least once in their life (30 per cent of women aged 15 and older). This figure does not include sexual harassment.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

Is anyone suggesting that those watching Pornhub don't know they are (almost certainly) watching real rapes and thus fuelling the traffickers who profit from this?

Yes. One because you haven't presented proof that most are watching actual rapes, two because how have you ascertained that those watching rape videos (are such videos the vast majority of heterosexual porn?) don't believe they are watching actors producing dramatic presentations?

 

[Poem]

i reread that, i don't mean challenge you specifically to find a rape video. i'm saying they're pretty hard to find if they're on those sites. the millions of people in the dark on that aren't watching those videos.

Hard to find because?

 

[Poem]

Yes. One because you haven't presented proof that most are watching actual rapes, two because how have you ascertained that those watching rape videos (are such videos the vast majority of heterosexual porn?) don't believe they are watching actors producing dramatic presentations?

I didn't say most.

I suggest that if people don't know then they should know...by now, anyway. Not knowing is perhaps further evidence of rape culture.

 

[Poem]

The problem with the OP is that pornhub was exposed as a publisher of rape videos some years ago and has changed its mode of operation. Viewing figures from 2019 are probably far from accurate now and there is no evidence it is showing underage porn.

https://fightthenewdrug.org/whats-going-on-with-pornhub-timeline-of-events/




The OP may have a point, but porn is not always violent exploitation and pornhub, at least, seems to have changed its poor behaviour.

I would suggest you read the entirety of the OP which, it appears, you have not done.

 

[Vixen]

I avoid looking at porn like the plague as ISTM much of it is not consensual at all, even if it is a model being paid.

There is a strong culture of misogyny in the UK so it is no surprise it is reflected in the media, which still depicts women as sex objects or figures of fun.

 

[Poem]

Yes. One because you haven't presented proof that most are watching actual rapes, two because how have you ascertained that those watching rape videos (are such videos the vast majority of heterosexual porn?) don't believe they are watching actors producing dramatic presentations?

My bad - I should have written the following (which I have done so by editing):

Is anyone suggesting that those watching Pornhub don't know they will almost certainly end up watching real rapes and thus fuelling the traffickers who profit from this?

 

[Darat]

I didn't say most.

I suggest that if people don't know then they should know...by now, anyway. Not knowing is perhaps further evidence of rape culture.

Why do you consider that? It is probably not something most people will even think about. I suspect that if you asked most they would think - if pressed to think about it - if it was on such a site such as Pornhub it's going to be fine since that's a mainstream porn site, not one that is hidden or doesn't market itself. Unfortunately, as is shown time and time again people overall are incurious about the world they inhabit, even parts that directly influence their lives.

 

[Darat]

My bad - I should have written the following (which I have done so by editing):

Is anyone suggesting that those watching Pornhub don't know they will almost certainly end up watching real rapes and thus fuelling the traffickers who profit from this?

Yes. See my post above.

 

[Poem]

I avoid looking at porn like the plague as ISTM much of it is not consensual at all, even if it is a model being paid.

There is a strong culture of misogyny in the UK so it is no surprise it is reflected in the media, which still depicts women as sex objects or figures of fun.

Does the term 'rape culture' accurately describe UK society do you think?

 

[Poem]

Why do you consider that? It is probably not something most people will even think about. I suspect that if you asked most they would think - if pressed to think about it - if it was on such a site such as Pornhub it's going to be fine since that's a mainstream porn site, not one that is hidden or doesn't market itself. Unfortunately, as is shown time and time again people overall are incurious about the world they inhabit, even parts that directly influence their lives.

Ok, you have a point. Let me come back...

 

[dirtywick]

Hard to find because?

because they moderate the content

 

[Poem]

because they moderate the content

According to employee Mike Farley they do not adequately moderate the content - he says there is a 'loophole'. What is your evidence that counters this? From Sound Investigations website:

September 21, Member of Canadian Parliament Arnold Viersen cited our investigations on the floor of Parliament and condemned Pornhub’s actions.

September 29, South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson and 25 other state attorneys general issued a letter to Pornhub demanding changes based on Sound Investigations’ videos.

October 3, 62 victims launched a new class action lawsuit against Pornhub, specifically citing Sound Investigations’ first two videos, including Pornhub’s Technical Product Manager Mike Farley’s indictment of Pornhub’s Chief Legal Officer and Chief Product Officer in the first undercover video.

December 19, a judge certified another class action lawsuit against Pornhub in Alabama’s Northern District court. This suit will subpoena two subjects featured in Sound Investigations’ videos, Mike Farley and Dillon Rice, as material witnesses. Farley, who told the undercover camera, “I wouldn’t be able to defend this in court” will now have to try to defend Pornhub’s actions in court.