Does Raising Suicide-Awareness actually help anyone?

It works both ways. "Raising awareness" by talking about this kid killing himself or this woman trying to kill herself... probably not. Raising awareness by spreading facts and info and answering questions like "I think my friend is suicidal, what do I do?" or "what happens to me if I am suicidal or try to commit suicide and seek help?", or "what do you say to someone who is suicidal" isn't just helpful, it's vital. There's way too many taboos, stigmas and myths attached to suicide, not to mention other psychological stuff like grief and mental illnesses. We need to talk about these things as much as we need to talk about sex, drugs or seat belt-wearing.

Had a good friend in High School who lost her mom in a big accident, and realized I had zero clue what to do. No one had ever gone through the five to ten minutes a basic "Being there for a grieving friend 101" course takes, and I suffered as a result.

It really isn't that hard to relay information like this. If we can teach kids how to boil potatoes in home economics, we can teach them actually important stuff like this. It really isn't that hard.

I am still, perpetually, slightly bemused by societal attitudes to suicide.
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Then, with all due respect, I take it you've never lost someone to suicide, ever. The shock and grief it causes on other, totally innocent people, is very hard to describe. No one has the right to do such a thing to their loved ones.
 
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jiggeryqua said:
Suicide is honourable.

Depending where you live, I suppose.

I am still, perpetually, slightly bemused by societal attitudes to suicide. If it isn't your life, to take as and when you please, whose is it? I'd always assumed western attitudes to suicide related to the body being a temple, life being god-given and so on, but that surely wouldn't hold here, would it?
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I remember when I was young and arrogant and said similar things.

After my father shot himself, I didn't say things like this anymore.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Then, with all due respect, I take it you've never lost someone to suicide, ever. The shock and grief it causes on other, totally innocent people, is very hard to describe. No one has the right to do such a thing to their loved ones.
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With all due respect, you're very wrong. Yes, it hurts. It is shocking, since successful suicide often comes 'out of the blue'. Grief is a component of life. But it has never led me to believe that the person taking their own life should have stayed their hand on my account.
 
jiggeryqua said:
Well, I was clearly differentiating between a position in which ones life is ones own, and a common western attitude that one shouldn't take ones own life, which I consider to be religious in origin. Your comment makes less and less sense the more I look at it.
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I don't think this concept is distinctly "western," other than perhaps a bit of Stoic thought.

Look at it as an attempt at control: of all the things one can or can't control, one's self is a thing one can.

DR
 
Ducky said:
I remember when I was young and arrogant and said similar things.

After my father shot himself, I didn't say things like this anymore.
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And with all due respect, I am neither young (not even relatively) nor particularly arrogant, I just hold a different opinion. Your father's life was his own - your childesque (I am desperately avoiding the connotations of 'childish') belief that his life was yours was misplaced. I am sorry for your loss.
 
Oh my, I just realized this is an intervention. Guys, come on. I'm on the sustained deterioration 30ish more year plan. Booze, smoke, and stupids. I figure hold out for some strange, you know?

Catch this and other self-help gems on my upcoming free download MP3, "Hold Out For Some Strange, You Know?"
 
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jiggeryqua said:
With all due respect, you're very wrong. Yes, it hurts. It is shocking, since successful suicide often comes 'out of the blue'. Grief is a component of life. But it has never led me to believe that the person taking their own life should have stayed their hand on my account.
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With that thought as a springboard, one of the social/religious based arguments is that suicide is a supremely selfish act, as taking one's own life deprives any and everyone in your social circle of your aid and assistance, help, talents, love, whatever.

Is that where you are coming from in your amusement at the religious or social side?

The inverse is related to my earlier post, where personal sovereignty is the paramount value. Your response to Ducky appears to put you in that camp. I tend to see it that way, mostly.

When one of my mom's bests friends ever, they grew up together, took a swan dive off of the balconey of her townhouse, somewhat imitating her father, one of the Wall Streeters who actually took a dive in 1929, the most common reaction among Mom's circle of friends was a bit of guilt along the lines of "What could I have done for her" to help her see life more positively.

I remarked to my Mom, who was shaken by this suicide, that another way to look at this was to look at her personality: she'd always been a strong, vibrant personality, a doer of things. She was decisive. So she made a decision, based on whatever factors, and acted decisively on it. She was herself all the way up to the end. Why not respect her for that, at least?

Granted, her husband took it real hard. I don't blame him, and I didn't offer him that "consolation" as I'm sure he'd not have been consoled.

DR
 
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jiggeryqua said:
And with all due respect, I am neither young (not even relatively) nor particularly arrogant, I just hold a different opinion. Your father's life was his own - your childesque (I am desperately avoiding the connotations of 'childish') belief that his life was yours was misplaced. I am sorry for your loss.
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Edited by Lisa Simpson: 
Edited to remove inappropriate remark.


Secondly: There is nothing childesque about holding someone to their responsibilities. My father's death destroyed my family and put me on the streets. Yes, you do owe your family something. No it is not childesque to expect a parent to live up to that. You can claim all you want someone's life is their own, but their choices to have responsibilities to others do not magically disappear if they choose to end their life.
 
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well and there is the aspect that suicides never happen in ONES. My daughter has seen this first hand. Indeed, it is commonly thought by therapists and psycholigsts (several of whom I work with weekly with my abductee work) that suicide is a disease that is highly contagious.

One teenage suicide generally means that schools and health care workers except at least 2 more attempts. Generally it is at least 5.

So, many psycholgists consider suicide a form of murder. In that your killing yourself leads directly to the death of others.

Now, it's up to the rest of society to step up and be supportive of those that are suffering deeply from mental illness or depression. THe old American "rah rah" and "are you productive, because if you aren't you might as well be dead" thought process is very difficult for people that need time and good medical care to survive. Life itself is what is sacred. Not a life that is productive and follows some arbitrary norm decided upon by a culture not a doctor.
 
jiggeryqua said:
And with all due respect, I am neither young (not even relatively) nor particularly arrogant, I just hold a different opinion. Your father's life was his own - your childesque (I am desperately avoiding the connotations of 'childish') belief that his life was yours was misplaced. I am sorry for your loss.
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''
You know I can't say what Ducky said to you... so I'll put it another way

HELLO EMPATHY DUDE! What you commited some sort of moral suicide that enables you to post like that? GEEZ.

Edited by Locknar: 
Edited, breach of Rule 0.
 
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kittynh said:
well and there is the aspect that suicides never happen in ONES. My daughter has seen this first hand. Indeed, it is commonly thought by therapists and psycholigsts (several of whom I work with weekly with my abductee work) that suicide is a disease that is highly contagious.

One teenage suicide generally means that schools and health care workers except at least 2 more attempts. Generally it is at least 5.

So, many psycholgists consider suicide a form of murder. In that your killing yourself leads directly to the death of others.

Now, it's up to the rest of society to step up and be supportive of those that are suffering deeply from mental illness or depression. THe old American "rah rah" and "are you productive, because if you aren't you might as well be dead" thought process is very difficult for people that need time and good medical care to survive. Life itself is what is sacred. Not a life that is productive and follows some arbitrary norm decided upon by a culture not a doctor.
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It is for this reason (suicide contagion/clusters) that there are guidelines on how the media should report suicide. Unfortunately I have noticed in recent news reports (eg the Bridgend suicides) that they don't always abide by these guidelines.

http://suicideandmentalhealthassociationinternational.org/suiconclust.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/01/bridgend-wales-youth-suicide-media-ethicshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgend_suicide_incidents
 
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Typicallucas said:
I just ran across someone who was going on about how it's important to raise suicide awareness...
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I think raising awareness on how to combat depression would be better. People already know about suicide. That's why people do it. If people knew how to make themselves feel better or worthy, they'd probably do that instead. ;)

I saw a guy do it once. He made eye contact with me and my girlfriend and then he jumped anyway. After that, I have never had any sympathy for people like that. They have no consideration for anyone but themselves. The family/friends that they leave behind and the strangers who must deal with the actual act of their suicide are of no consequence to them, and that is despicable. To me, suicide is nature's way of weeding out the weak.
 
MikeSun5 said:
I think raising awareness on how to combat depression would be better. People already know about suicide. That's why people do it. If people knew how to make themselves feel better or worthy, they'd probably do that instead. ;)

I saw a guy do it once. He made eye contact with me and my girlfriend and then he jumped anyway. After that, I have never had any sympathy for people like that. They have no consideration for anyone but themselves. The family/friends that they leave behind and the strangers who must deal with the actual act of their suicide are of no consequence to them, and that is despicable. To me, suicide is nature's way of weeding out the weak.
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You have to understand that in many (most?) cases their thinking is so disturbed that to apply words like selfish to them really makes no sense. Having been very close to it myself, I know that you can feel that your life is so worthless and you are such a horrid disgusting individual, that even if they don't realise it, your family and friends would have a much better life if you were no longer alive. And you can be in so much pain that it blinds you to the pain of others - but that is not selfishness - it is what living in agony does to you. You can't really apply normal logic and thinking to someone who is in that place.

One can have sympathy and compassion for those who unfortunately "succeed" in suicide whilst still recognising the incredible damage it causes to those around them. Demonising the suicidal is certainly not a way to help prevent more suicide.

Serious question: If I ever get to that point again, and am not able to stop myself from comitting suicide - would you consider me just a weak person that has been "weeded out" of the gene pool? And do you think such comments are likely to be helpful to a person who is suicidal, in helping them pull back from the brink?
 
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Professor Yaffle said:
Demonising the suicidal is certainly not a way to help prevent more suicide.
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This is obviously a good point, but it's not what I was trying to do. My opinions of weak-willed individuals seldom surface when I deal with one. ;) I'm just saying I didn't even know that guy who killed himself in front of me (and in front of my girl - so, so rude), but I would have helped him if I could have. He didn't know that, but it's that blatant disregard for other humans (and also the extreme lack of discretion) that pisses me off. I don't see how anyone can be so oblivious to EVERYONE but themselves. Other people have problems, too. A suicide would add to them, not alleviate them.

Serious question: If I ever get to that point again, and am not able to stop myself from comitting suicide - would you consider me just a weak person that has been "weeded out" of the gene pool?
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If you fit the following 3 criteria, you will not like my answer.

If you [1] ignore every person in your life that cares about (or simply knows) you, and [2] you also could care less about anyone who would be negatively affected by your chosen method of suicide, [3] if you honestly think that you can no longer positively contribute to society, then yes. If you are so self-centered that nobody on the planet's word matters but your own, that is beyond narcissism. I understand what you said about logic not being present in the person's mind, but in my opinion, someone who makes decisions of that magnitude without logic present is not on par with the rest of society who does.

And do you think such comments are likely to be helpful to a person who is suicidal, in helping them pull back from the brink?
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:confused: Of course not! I would never say those things to "help" a suicidal person, or pull them back from the brink, because those comments would probably do the opposite. You forget the venue of this conversation. If someone is suicidal and "on the brink," they most likely wouldn't be reading this thread anyway.
 
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I dont think it would really help. If a person is determined enouh to tale their own life then it would have no effect. It might even give the person the idea
 
I remember when I was young and arrogant and said similar things.

After my father shot himself, I didn't say things like this anymore.
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This. Thank you.
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Seconded.

You don't have the right to inflict severe grief and trauma on other people (Norwegians have on average 20 close loved ones) and possibly more suicides just because you feel bad, temporarily, at any given time.
 
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