Does Obama hold anything Sacred? Lying about his OWN MOM?

[BeAChooser]

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-lies-mom-networks-yawn-070000954.html

On July 13, 2011, this cycle repeated itself when The New York Times reported on another national Democrat lying about a death in the family in his convention address, presidential debates and just about everywhere. That was Barack Obama in 2008, claiming his mother, Ann Dunham, died of cancer while battling with insurance companies all the way through. Dramatic? Yes. But an utter lie. Network coverage of this new jaw-dropper on ABC, CBS and NBC? Also zip, zilch, zero.

… snip …

In a story published on page 16, reporter Kevin Sack explained, "The White House on Wednesday declined to challenge an account in a new book" that Obama "mischaracterized a central anecdote about his mother's deathbed dispute with her insurance company." The headline said the book "challenges" the Obama story, and in the story, they used the word "mischaracterized." It was a whole lot more than that.

The new book, by Times reporter Janny Scott, is titled "A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama's Mother." Scott quoted from correspondence from Dunham to assert that the 1995 dispute concerned a Cigna disability insurance policy. Her actual health insurer had reimbursed most of her medical expenses without argument. The Times noted that although candidate Obama often suggested that Dunham "was denied health coverage because of a pre-existing condition, it appears from her correspondence that she was only denied disability coverage."

Obama lied to an entire stadium of supporters in his Aug. 28, 2008, convention speech. "As someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer," he announced, "I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most."

The same line was declared in the Oct. 7, 2008, presidential debate, carried by all the networks like the convention speech. … snip …

Obama also mentioned her in a 2007 campaign TV ad: "In those last painful months, she was more worried about paying her medical bills than getting well. I hear stories like hers every day."

The Times went to liberal Harvard professor Robert Blendon to pronounce the obvious: If Obama's phony storyline had been discovered during the 2008 campaign, "people would have considered it a significant error." Or not an error — a lie. Blendon added: "I just took for granted that it was a pre-existing condition health insurance issue."
So did the entire American news media.

There's one last interesting tidbit in the Times. Obama's mother wrote to Cigna after they declined her claims that she had turned the case over to "my son and attorney, Barack Obama." Scott could not determine from the documents she viewed whether Obama had ever written to Cigna on his mother's behalf. Isn't it interesting that in all of Obama's rhetoric about his mother's insurance battles, he always left himself out of the storyline? Did this lawyer son ever get involved?

Does Obama hold ANYTHING sacred? Lying about own's dying mom to gain political advantage. I think that is truly disgusting.

Comments from the left side of the bench?

 

[A'isha]

Comments from the left side of the bench?

Yeah. This was posted on Fark like a week ago. What took you so long?

 

[BeAChooser]

Yeah. This was posted on Fark like a week ago. What took you so long?

So do you have a comment on the facts as laid out here ... or would you like to attack the source of this ... the New York Times ... as completely unreliable? Hmmmmm?

 

[Spindrift]

So do you have a comment on the facts as laid out here ... or would you like to attack the source of this ... the New York Times ... as completely unreliable? Hmmmmm?

It was stupid and he should not have done it.


ETA: Sorry I was talking about Clinton killing Ron Brown. Force of habit when responding to a BaC thread. On second thought, my answer stands about Obama and Mama Obama.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-lies-mom-networks-yawn-070000954.html

Does Obama hold ANYTHING sacred?

Probably.

Lying about own's dying mom to gain political advantage.

Can you point out the lie in the article you posted ? I missed it.
The quotes say his mother argued with the insurance company. I doubt that is a lie.
It says she was worried about paying her medical bills. I doubt that was a lie either.

I think that is truly disgusting.

That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Bri]

His mother was fighting for insurance payments as she was dying, but for disability insurance, not health insurance. The White House doesn't dispute the findings in the book. A White House spokesman, Nicholas Papas, told the Times:

We have not reviewed the letters or other material on which the author bases her account. The president has told this story based on his recollection of events that took place more than 15 years ago.​

While there's no evidence that Obama purposely lied to gain political advantage, his recollection of events was incorrect. The point he was making in telling the story is probably valid, and I suspect that if he had realized his imperfect recollection of events, he would have simply chosen one of hundreds of other anecdotes of people who have fought with health insurance companies over pre-existing conditions.

-Bri

 

[A'isha]

So do you have a comment on the facts as laid out here ... or would you like to attack the source of this ... the New York Times ... as completely unreliable? Hmmmmm?

Actually, the source is Brent Bozell, filtering what Dunham's biographer said through his own lens of partisan stupid. Did Obama describe his mother's insurance company travails in a way that implied she was being denied medical reimbursement, and that was the source of much worry and trouble for her in her last days? Yes, and as Spindrift said, it was stupid and he shouldn't have done it.

But when Bozell writes a sentence like "That was Barack Obama in 2008, claiming his mother, Ann Dunham, died of cancer while battling with insurance companies all the way through. Dramatic? Yes. But an utter lie." Well, that's just utter nonsense. Because as Bozell actually admits, Scott's book describes Dunham's fight with the insurance company that Bozell describes as "an utter lie", and he even includes all the details as to why that fight just might have caused her stress and worry during the process.

Compare, for instance, Bozell's description of what Obama said with some of his actual words:

I remember my mother. She was 52 years old when she died of ovarian cancer, and you know what she was thinking about in the last months of her life? She wasn’t thinking about getting well. She wasn't thinking about coming to terms with her own mortality. She had been diagnosed just as she was transitioning between jobs. And she wasn’t sure whether insurance was going to cover the medical expenses because they might consider this a preexisting condition. I remember just being heartbroken, seeing her struggle through the paperwork and the medical bills and the insurance forms. So, I have seen what it's like when somebody you love is suffering because of a broken health care system. And it's wrong. It's not who we are as a people.

You ought to read "A Singular Woman", by the way. It's pretty good stuff.

 

[Molinaro]

Obama didn't say she was denied. He said she was worrying about it. I don't see any lies beyond those made by the OP.

 

[C_Felix]

On July 13, 2011, this cycle repeated itself when The New York Times reported on another national Democrat lying about a death in the family in his convention address, presidential debates and just about everywhere. That was Barack Obama in 2008, claiming his mother, Ann Dunham, died of cancer while battling with insurance companies all the way through. Dramatic? Yes. But an utter lie. Network coverage of this new jaw-dropper on ABC, CBS and NBC? Also zip, zilch, zero.

… snip …

In a story published on page 16, reporter Kevin Sack explained, "The White House on Wednesday declined to challenge an account in a new book" that Obama "mischaracterized a central anecdote about his mother's deathbed dispute with her insurance company." The headline said the book "challenges" the Obama story, and in the story, they used the word "mischaracterized." It was a whole lot more than that.

The new book, by Times reporter Janny Scott, is titled "A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama's Mother."#1 Scott quoted from correspondence from Dunham to assert that the 1995 dispute concerned a Cigna disability insurance policy. Her actual health insurer had reimbursed most of her medical expenses without argument. The Times noted that although candidate Obama often suggested that Dunham "was denied health coverage because of a pre-existing condition, it appears from her correspondence that she was only denied disability coverage."

Obama lied to an entire stadium of supporters in his Aug. 28, 2008, convention speech. #2 "As someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer," he announced, "I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most."

The same line was declared in the Oct. 7, 2008, presidential debate, carried by all the networks like the convention speech. … snip …

#3-Obama also mentioned her in a 2007 campaign TV ad: "In those last painful months, she was more worried about paying her medical bills than getting well. I hear stories like hers every day."

The Times went to liberal Harvard professor Robert Blendon to pronounce the obvious: If Obama's phony storyline had been discovered during the 2008 campaign, "people would have considered it a significant error." Or not an error — a lie. Blendon added: "I just took for granted that it was a pre-existing condition health insurance issue."
So did the entire American news media.

There's one last interesting tidbit in the Times. Obama's mother wrote to #4-Cigna after they declined her claims that she had turned the case over to "my son and attorney, Barack Obama." Scott could not determine from the documents she viewed whether Obama had ever written to Cigna on his mother's behalf. Isn't it interesting that in all of Obama's rhetoric about his mother's insurance battles, he always left himself out of the storyline? Did this lawyer son ever get involved?

#1-Looks like it was two different insurance companies.
"She disputed something with Cigna, but her actual insurance company..." I'm reading that as two different insurance companies.

So...perhaps she was aruging over something with Cigna, but, didn't have a problem with Joe Blow's Insurance.

#2-How long did she have cancer for? It seems like late 94/early 95. She died in November 1995. "Deathbed" can and cannot be taken literally. I'm willing to bet between the early 1995 and November 1995, she was arguing with Cigna at least once about bills and or what treatmetns she'd be allowed to have.

#3-And you know that she wasn't worried about paying her bills? Really? How do you know that?

#4-Looks like that backs up #1 and #2. She was aruging a claim with Cigna.



So...where's the lie?


And to answer the question that is in the subject line. I'm sure he does. (Insert jokes about Allah and Karl Marx here.)

 

[Dancing David]

So do you have a comment on the facts as laid out here ... or would you like to attack the source of this ... the New York Times ... as completely unreliable? Hmmmmm?

I don't know, is the book's source reliable?

You are quoting a column quoting a book, so what is the books source?

 

[Biscuit]

Maybe the networks yawned because saying, "As someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer," isn't lying. She did argue with the insurance carriers and he watched.

The larger point of the story being that when our elderly or anyone is sick they should be focusing on their health not having to worry about what the insurance companies will or won't do. That insurance companies do not make getting well an easier process.

What I do find disgusting is the supposition that President Obama was asked by his sick mother for help and that he did nothing.

 

[Dancing David]

Here is the speech 2009 to the AMA:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-06-15-obama-speech-text_N.htm

One editorial deserves another
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...sed-Barack-Obamas-Mother-During-Cancer-Battle

In August 1995, according to Janny Scott’s book, “A Singular Woman,” Dunham received a letter from the CIGNA subsidiary that had been hired by her employer to provide short-term disability benefits. Dunham assumed the company would reimburse her for expenses related to her treatment for uterine cancer.
The letter from CIGNA dashed her hopes. The company was refusing to pay because it had reason to believe the cancer had started before she enrolled in the policy. Scott wrote that the company based its decision on notes it obtained from a gynecologist Dunham had seen months earlier for abdominal pain.

Even though the doctor did not tell Dunham she might have cancer, she made a note in Dunham’s medical record that the pain she was experiencing might be the result of a malignancy.

Scott wrote that while undergoing chemotherapy and dealing with the accompanying hair loss and sickness, Dunham had to devote enormous amounts of time communicating with CIGNA in an effort to get the company to reconsider.

So she was
'This is personal for me. I will never forget watching my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final days, worrying about whether her insurer would claim her illness was a preexisting condition so it could get out of providing coverage."

So not a lie, now was it?

 

[Bri]

I don't know, is the book's source reliable?

You are quoting a column quoting a book, so what is the books source?

The book is reputable and is based on reliable sources. The White House also doesn't dispute the findings in the book.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-mother-fought-disability-coverage-not-treat/

Maybe the networks yawned because saying, "As someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer," isn't lying. She did argue with the insurance carriers and he watched.

The problem is that Obama was using the anecdote in the context of health care reform. The story about his mother would only have pertained to the health care bill he was referring to if she had been denied treatment by her health insurance company, as Obama suggested she was. However, his mother wasn't denied treatment -- she was denied disability insurance and Obama's health care reform had nothing to do with disability insurance.

So she was
'This is personal for me. I will never forget watching my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final days, worrying about whether her insurer would claim her illness was a preexisting condition so it could get out of providing coverage."

So not a lie, now was it?

Obama likely didn't purposely lie, but he was mistaken. There was no question about her health insurance company providing coverage for treatment of her illness.

Here's another quote from Obama concerning the anecdote in question:

I will never forget my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final months, having to worry about whether her insurance would refuse to pay for her treatment.​

No insurance company refused to pay for her treatment.

-Bri

 

[DC]

liberal Harvard professor Robert Blendon

he is Professor of Health Policy and Political Analysis not in liberalogy

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Obama likely didn't purposely lie, but he was mistaken. There was no question about her health insurance company providing coverage for treatment of her illness.

<anecdotal data>
Until I or my provider has a check in hand ... it's been my experience that there is always at least a little bit of question about whether costs are covered ...
</anecdotal data>

 

[Molinaro]

Here's another quote from Obama concerning the anecdote in question:

I will never forget my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final months, having to worry about whether her insurance would refuse to pay for her treatment.​

No insurance company refused to pay for her treatment.

-Bri

But the quote you provide right there doesn't say a company refused treatment. Why would you make that your final point? What does it have to do with the quote from Obama?

Do you have any evidence that she did not spend any time worrying about if she would be covered or not?

 

[Bri]

<anecdotal data>
Until I or my provider has a check in hand ... it's been my experience that there is always at least a little bit of question about whether costs are covered ...
</anecdotal data>

Do you have any evidence that she did not spend any time worrying about if she would be covered or not?

Except that's not what he said and it wasn't his point in the context of health care. His story was that she was having to fight her health insurance company because they were threatening to deny her treatment because of a pre-existing condition.

-Bri

 

[Biscuit]

The problem is that Obama was using the anecdote in the context of health care reform. The story about his mother would only have pertained to the health care bill he was referring to if she had been denied treatment by her health insurance company, as Obama suggested she was. However, his mother wasn't denied treatment -- she was denied disability insurance and Obama's health care reform had nothing to do with disability insurance.

I thought he was "lying" about this on the campaign trail. What the actual healthcare reform bill would contain was not known at the time. But once again the larger point to the story is missed.

Obama likely didn't purposely lie, but he was mistaken. There was no question about her health insurance company providing coverage for treatment of her illness.

There was a question about if they would reimburse her. They choose not to and claimed pre-existing condition. I don't think he was even mistaken I think he was empathizing with people. Once again the larger point to Obama's story is missed.

Here's another quote from Obama concerning the anecdote in question:

I will never forget my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final months, having to worry about whether her insurance would refuse to pay for her treatment.​

No insurance company refused to pay for her treatment.

-Bri

They were refusing to reimburse her for treatment in between carriers as arranged for her. So yes they were refusing to to pay for treatment and claiming preexisting condition which furthers the actual point of Obama's story, health insurance companies do not make getting well an easy process and reform is needed.

 

[PhreePhly]

Except that's not what he said and it wasn't his point in the context of health care. His story was that she was having to fight her health insurance company because they were threatening to deny her treatment because of a pre-existing condition.

-Bri

No his story was that she was worried that her coverage might be denied. If we all stipulate that the book is factual, the Cigna subsidiary sent a letter showing cause to deny her short-term disability due to a pre-existing condition. That may have been worked out later, but doesn't change the fact that she spent time worrying about her insurance and not her cancer. I still don't see where Obama lied or misspoke.

 

[Bri]

I thought he was "lying" about this on the campaign trail. What the actual healthcare reform bill would contain was not known at the time.

He told the story in different ways on different occasions, but always in the context of health care reform. He specifically spoke about her fighting with her health insurance company about paying for her treatment. Disability insurance is different than health insurance.

There was a question about if they would reimburse her. They choose not to and claimed pre-existing condition.

Once again, she had no problem whatsoever with her health insurance. Her health insurance paid for her treatment and there was never any question about her health insurance not paying for her treatment. The only insurance she had problems with was disability insurance, not health insurance.

I don't think he was even mistaken I think he was empathizing with people. Once again the larger point to Obama's story is missed.

This I agree with. However, he was using his mother as an example, and his mother didn't actually have the problem he was talking about (health insurance companies denying treatment for pre-existing conditions). As I said previously in the thread, Obama's larger point about denial of treatment for pre-existing conditions is still valid.

-Bri