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Does Libertarianism Allow For Jerks?

shanek said:

That wasn't the lie. The lie was twofold: 1) the omission of excises as another method of payment; and 2) the denial that usage fees do not necessitate the service being exclusive to those who pay the fees.

If you had just said "excise taxes" the debate would have ended there. I did not ommit anything, you gave "usage fees" as part of your answer so I chose to comment on them. If the "usage fees" are optional, as you seem to be claiming now, then there is a different word for that, "donations".
In the real world, if a service has usage fee's associated with it, only those that pay the fee's are entitled to the service.

That is absolutely untrue. Let's say you go to your county office and get a building permit. You pay $X in exchange for the permit. Do you really think that the $X you gave them is the exact amount of the expenses of giving you the permit and no more?

And if you don't or can't pay the fee you don't get the permit. What's your point?

And then, of course, there are the excises you keep ignoring and pretending I never said.

I'm not talking about excises, I'm talking about "usage fees". If you only meant excise taxes, you should have left it at that. Considering you put "usage fees" first you obviously think that's where a large part of the funding will come from.
 
EvilYeti said:

You are correct, the rules do not specifically proscribe libel. Hence the ability for folks like shanek to habitually libel his critics by calling them liars. It only seems fair that in absense of any moderation, others may libel him in return.
Or is there a rule that says only certain posters are allowed to libel, or only certain types of libel are allowed?
Could you clarify please?
Calling someone a liar does not rise to the level of actionable libel. Because name-calling is so prevalent on message boards, calling somone a liar or some other name does not adversely affect one's name and reputation. Claiming that someone is a registered sex offender is actionable libel, because it could damage one's name and reputation. Unless, of course, one has evidence to support that allegation.

The rules here do not specifically prohibit libel. However, libelous statements may be subject to administrator action under Rule 8 and/or Rule 10.

All parties should note that the rules also state that "The JREF is not responsible for the content, opinions, beliefs, or other matters contained in posts on this forum. The opinions expressed are strictly those of the individuals involved, and the JREF assumes no liability for such opinions." If people post material that results in legal action, they can't expect to drag the JREF with them as parties to any legal action.

You've mentioned "absence of moderation"; moderator authority is limited under Rules 5 and 6. So, while I might suggest that a poster revise their statements if they apparently violate Forum rules, it is not within my authority to remove or edit posts, although I have the capability to do so. Moderation is therefore limited to variations of "Hey! Don't do that!" and, of course, applying asterisks to certain cuss words that appear on a limited list.

All that said, I remind everyone that I'm only a moderator, and my opinions do not carry administrative authority. Administrative questions should be addressed to the administrators.
 
EvilYeti said:
If you had just said "excise taxes" the debate would have ended there. I did not ommit anything, you gave "usage fees" as part of your answer so I chose to comment on them.

But by saying that poor people would be left without police service, you were CLEARLY ignoring the excises I mentioned which would indeed provide police funding regardless of how much any particular person paid in. That was the lie.

If the "usage fees" are optional, as you seem to be claiming now,

I'm not saying they're optional; I'm just saying they wouldn't be the sole source of funding.

And if you don't or can't pay the fee you don't get the permit. What's your point?

The point is, a good part of the money you pay for that permit goes to pay for other services.

You're just pathetically trying to weasel around your claims...The mature thing to do is just retract it and say you were wrong, which everyone here can see that you were anyway.
 
Not Correct

Jet Grind said:
Diezel,

....... and socialists (of the left-libertarian or anarchist stripe) believe that freedom means freedom from authority or hierarchy...

But that is precisely where you are mistaken. Both the left (socialists) and the right are statist and utilitarian. They just have differing agendas. Socialists and rightists are both authoritarian.
 
Re: Not Correct

billydkid said:


But that is precisely where you are mistaken. Both the left (socialists) and the right are statist and utilitarian. They just have differing agendas. Socialists and rightists are both authoritarian.
Anarchists (who are generally socialists) aren't statists.
 
Re: Re: Not Correct

bangdazap said:

Anarchists (who are generally socialists) aren't statists.

I'm sitting here trying to figure out how an anarchist can be socialist and vice-versa. Can you explain?
 

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