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Merged Does CERN prove Einstein wrong?

JayUtah said:
So in other words, you don't know if this alleged power actually exists are not. In light of that, is it really intelligent to use the allegation of such influences as a means of patching up holes in your speculation? Aren't you really just piling speculation on top of speculation?
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It's a conspiracy theory. Or rather several conspiracy theories combined. I think several of these theories fit together fairly well.

If the result from CERN turns out to be true, then scientists will reexamine Einstein's theories, not to expose a conspiracy but to come up with a more correct theory. For conspiracy researchers on the other hand it can mean a lot of new research about conspiracies in science.
 
Erock said:
That is an oxymoron. Making dippy stuff up without the knowledge to back it up or even understand it, seems par for the CT community.
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But IF there is a conspiracy and Einstein's theories a hoax, a deliberate smokescreen to fool the public inclusive ordinary scientists, then it's important that the truth is exposed or else Einstein's theories will remain a huge blockage for true science.

Then it will be a good idea to inform scientists about that. Scientists who don't believe in vast conspiracies would probably change their minds if they watched the AE911 Truth Experts Speak Out video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgL50X6Efts
 
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Anders Lindman said:
It's a conspiracy theory. Or rather several conspiracy theories combined. I think several of these theories fit together fairly well.
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That's because they've been contrived to fit together without the pesky burden of conforming to fact. That's cheating. One speculation is formulated to fit the gaps created by some previous speculation. All you're doing is dancing farther and farther down the road to some vast alternate reality, in almost complete ignorance of fact.

To your credit, you admit that you don't pay much attention to fact. But you have to wonder what the purpose of that exercise is. Do you favor living in a society were each person maintains his own private reality replete with "facts" he's simply invented himself? What if you suddenly become an enemy in his "reality" and he decides to take action and murder you? Is he at fault?
 
JayUtah said:
So in other words, you don't know if this alleged power actually exists are not. In light of that, is it really intelligent to use the allegation of such influences as a means of patching up holes in your speculation? Aren't you really just piling speculation on top of speculation?
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Yep.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Yes, the process of evolution (including the progress of technology which is a part of the total evolution of the universe).
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You understand that a similar argument shows that the total energy content of the universe is increasing, yes?

Do you see how that shows that this is not a good argument?

The fact that a particular quantity increases locally under conditions that are very different from the average of the rest of the universe tells us nothing about how that quantity varies in general.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Basically none of the physics professors are a part of the shadow science probably. Conspiracy researcher Alan Watt said that only a few students are chosen to become a part of the science level above the public level. Most researchers, even top professors, have no clue about that higher level of science.
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Oh, there's your problem. I was wondering: Alan Watt is in on it, he knew that you'd figure out that there was a conspiracy, so to mitigate the damage he manipulated you to think that it's only a high level conspiracy, actually almost all people working in science are involved, at least to some level...

Wait, I probably shouldn't have told you that. :boxedin:
 
Anders Lindman said:
If they had the Saturn V for military purposes and it was smaller than would have been needed for the Apollo mission, then it would be convenient to still use the Saturn V but lie about the real size and film the Apollo launches in slow motion, with dramatic angles, boosted sound and with altered launch pad to make it look bigger than it really was.
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Those kinds of tricks of perspective only work because the camera is viewing from a particular angle. What about all the people who watched the launches live, don't you think they would have thought it odd that the rocket was so small, been confused by the "altered launch pad", etc?
 
Anders Lindman said:
:eek: What did Barack Obama say in his Inaugural Address?

"We will restore science to its rightful place." -- Barack Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-NJfzR3rc

Restore science? To its rightful place? From a conspiracy theory viewpoint it sounds very much in line with this thread. :D
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Gee, or it could be a backhand slap at the Republican party and some of the idiotic anti-scientific decisions made during the Cheney/Rumsfeld administration.
 
Roboramma said:
You understand that a similar argument shows that the total energy content of the universe is increasing, yes?

Do you see how that shows that this is not a good argument?

The fact that a particular quantity increases locally under conditions that are very different from the average of the rest of the universe tells us nothing about how that quantity varies in general.
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I'm not sure how information is related to energy. Every cubic centimeter of so-called empty space contains enormous amounts of energy, also called vacuum energy, quantum soup, zero-point energy and the Dirac sea.

Using quantization in quantum mechanics and setting the cutoff to the Planck scale and the calculated amount of vacuum energy in each cubic centimeter of empty space becomes astronomical. So it is possible that the total amount of energy in the universe always remains constant, but that the process of evolution is using more and more of the otherwise dormant vacuum energy.
 
ApolloGnomon said:
Gee, or it could be a backhand slap at the Republican party and some of the idiotic anti-scientific decisions made during the Cheney/Rumsfeld administration.
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Or a double message. Many if not most or even all conspiracy researchers say that the political left and the political right are basically a trick to satisfy the masses. That these are only superficial differences and that the politics remains the same and is controlled by the same powers regardless of the political left or right.

Other examples of double messages are when George W. Bush talked about seeing the first plane hitting the WTC on television and when he said that explosives went off in the buildings.
 
Roboramma said:
Those kinds of tricks of perspective only work because the camera is viewing from a particular angle. What about all the people who watched the launches live, don't you think they would have thought it odd that the rocket was so small, been confused by the "altered launch pad", etc?
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Those who watched the Saturn V launches were standing far away so it would have been difficult for the people to estimate exactly how big the rocket was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfqTy-CFQNE
 
Anders Lindman said:
Those who watched the Saturn V launches were standing far away so it would have been difficult for the people to estimate exactly how big the rocket was.
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And how about those who were allowed to get very close to them while they were on the pad, before they were launched?

What is the point you're trying to make about the size of the Saturn V? It seems like you're just making up controversies gratuitously.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Those who watched the Saturn V launches were standing far away so it would have been difficult for the people to estimate exactly how big the rocket was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfqTy-CFQNE
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You don't understand relative scale, do you? Do you really think anyone was saying you could figure out the rough dimensions of the Saturn V by standing under it and going "Boy, that's big?"

At any distance at which you can still make out objects of known scale (people, cars, the number of stories in buildings), you have the ability to judge relative scale.
 
JayUtah said:
And how about those who were allowed to get very close to them while they were on the pad, before they were launched?

What is the point you're trying to make about the size of the Saturn V? It seems like you're just making up controversies gratuitously.
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Saturn V may have been the size they said it was even if it really was for military purposes, but if it was in reality smaller than they said, then that's is a very strong evidence that the Apollo missions were a hoax.

So find a real Saturn V rocket. Measure it. And then compare with the official Saturn V blueprints from NASA.
 
nomuse said:
You don't understand relative scale, do you? Do you really think anyone was saying you could figure out the rough dimensions of the Saturn V by standing under it and going "Boy, that's big?"

At any distance at which you can still make out objects of known scale (people, cars, the number of stories in buildings), you have the ability to judge relative scale.
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Not if they deliberately put model-sized objects next to the Saturn V to fool people about the scale. NASA personnel near the rocket could have been people from the NRO who knew about the hoax.
 
Anders Lindman said:
I'm not sure how information is related to energy.
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On a second thought, scientists have perhaps already calculated this, at least in relation to entropy. A black hole has an event horizon in the form of a sphere. On that sphere entropy can be calculated like pixels of information on the surface. And the ratio between that information and the energy for the black hole can be calculated I guess.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Saturn V may have been the size they said it was even if it really was for military purposes, but if it was in reality smaller than they said, then that's is a very strong evidence that the Apollo missions were a hoax.

So find a real Saturn V rocket. Measure it. And then compare with the official Saturn V blueprints from NASA.
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That's what you should do. You're making the claim.

Hint.

this.

and.


Anders Lindman said:
Not if they deliberately put model-sized objects next to the Saturn V to fool people about the scale. NASA personnel near the rocket could have been people from the NRO who knew about the hoax.
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You see, that kind of stuff works in movies.
 
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Anders Lindman said:
I don't remember exactly when I started doubting Einstein's theories. I had heard several alternative, and even mainstream, scientists talking about the possibility of Einstein being wrong. And then perhaps in combination with looking into the atom bomb hoax I started question the whole nuclear thing including Einstein's theories. Not nuclear power plants. I still believed nuclear power plants were definitely real. Today I think that maybe even those can be a hoax, lol.
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That's nice. When you have the time, why don't you answer my question instead ?
 
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