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Merged Does CERN prove Einstein wrong?

Anders Lindman said:
I don't remember when exactly I started questioning Einstein's theories. It might have been before or after I started looking into the possibility of an atom bomb hoax. Maybe 2-3 years ago.
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So basically you made this stuff up?

You know, when hardly anyone supports your theory, and in fact the largest amount of scientists, that indeed, have studied the exact topic for years disagree with you, it's a good indicator you are wrong.
 
Greedo said:
So basically you made this stuff up?

You know, when hardly anyone supports your theory, and in fact the largest amount of scientists, that indeed, have studied the exact topic for years disagree with you, it's a good indicator you are wrong.
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I haven't researched it in detail but I think there are many mainstream scientists who question Einstein's theories.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Many scientists believe the result from CERN will challenge Einstein's theories.
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You see, in science, sometimes when new things are learned, old theories are corrected (I'm no expert in the field, so I am not going to comment on the issue). In that case, the scientists would not do so, because Einstein's theory was a hoax, but because he was wrong.
 
Greedo said:
You see, in science, sometimes when new things are learned, old theories are corrected (I'm no expert in the field, so I am not going to comment on the issue). In that case, the scientists would not do so, because Einstein's theory was a hoax, but because he was wrong.
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This quote should give us a clue about what Einstein was up to:

"The contrast between the popular estimate of my powers and achievements and the reality is simply grotesque." -- Albert Einstein
 
Anders Lindman said:
This quote should give us a clue about what Einstein was up to:

"The contrast between the popular estimate of my powers and achievements and the reality is simply grotesque." -- Albert Einstein
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Yes. That tells me that Einstein was being modest, as he was embarrassed by the popular view of him as the archetypal all-knowing genius.

It tells me that while the popular view was that Einstein understood everything about how the universe works he was, through his work, acutely aware of the problems he couldn't solve.

This absolutely does not mean (as I suspect you are implying) that Einstein believed the work he had produced was wrong. Merely that he was uncomfortable with the popular impression that there was no problem he couldn't solve.
 
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Greedo said:
You see, in science, sometimes when new things are learned, old theories are corrected (I'm no expert in the field, so I am not going to comment on the issue). In that case, the scientists would not do so, because Einstein's theory was a hoax, but because he was wrong.
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Exactly.

Many are trying to reconcile the very slight gravitational inconsistencies for starters. I doubt it will turn out that Einstein was wrong, just that he wasn't 100% correct.
 
Erock said:
Exactly.

Many are trying to reconcile the very slight gravitational inconsistencies for starters. I doubt it will turn out that Einstein was wrong, just that he wasn't 100% correct.
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Yes. This is what science is all about.

ETA:
Science.jpg
 
As just a man on the street, all I sse from Cern are scientists going through the proper scientific process and saying, we have these results and we want help to confirm them or show them to be errors.
I am only now getting into science and love the idea that although we have many well proven theories, they can all be changed should evidence be produced that disproves them. I think that an unknown error or other possible theory may explain the results but at the same time would love for them to be true and a whole area of physics to be opened up to explain them.

As for all these conspiracy theories, or is it just the one that big science is a lie. Well to even my uneducated brain it just seems totally crazy. As has been said, the many millions of people that would need to be in on it for it to work rules it out for me.

I am really starting to like science and in particular this area of it. I love that theories can be created and then experiments produced to support (or not) those theories.

I like that any true scientist will have to accept good evidence, even if it goes against personal beliefs.

I have some friends who pretty much believe any conspiracy going. When they started to get into them I was thinking of making conspiracy bingo cards and marking off each theory as they talked about them. I think FMOTL and chem-trails are the in thing this week.
But anyway my point is that they love their conspiracy theories so much that it makes no difference what evidence you put in front of them, they will never believe it.
I guess what I want to say is that, from what I have read, this Anders guy believes in what he believes in and no proof will sway him. I would hazard a guess that all the clever guys here (and I hope I can learn something from you guys) would change their opinions if good evidence was placed before them, unlike a CT nut who will never concede to evidence.

Sadly I can't contribute to any of the science in this thread as I am only now just getting my head around the concepts of physics and the math is beyond me. I hope that with hard work and learning that will change.

Oh and Anders there is a little poker analogy that I feel might fit here. If you can't tell who the fish is at your table, it's probably you. :)

Back to the books :D
 
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Anders Lindman said:
Many scientists believe the result from CERN will challenge Einstein's theories.
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Actually, no. So far no real scientists - at least none in the involved field (the only ones that matter) - have been unanimous in saying that the results can easily be very tiny measurement errors and that multiple very detailed repeats of this experiment as well as related experiments must be done before they will even begin to consider how/where to adjust Einstein's equations - and that is given the fact that the team/person who does prove the change correct and manages to explain how and why can write their own ticket, have their full choices of lab/company/school for their professional - plus a walk on a Nobel prize in Physics. So there will be no coverup on this puppy like the HeLa cell thing (which was covering up for stupidity and greed, not keeping truth away to protect a dead famous scientist. VERY different).
 
Anders Lindman said:
A dimension is the same in both directions. Time has an arrow
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1) Your first sentence is an assumption.

2) The truth value of your second sentence is not known.

3) Even if both your sentences are true, your conclusion does not follow from your premises. It could be that living beings experience time in a certain way that does not preclude time from being a dimension as per your first sentence.

So it seems your basic claim, that time is not a dimension, is wrong. Therefore the rest of your argument is not worth discussing.
 
Anders Lindman said:
I don't remember when exactly I started questioning Einstein's theories.
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I guess it must be when you discovered you didn't understand any of it.

By keeping the true knowledge to themselves the shadow powers can remain having the upper hand.
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What upper hand ? What shadow powers ? Do you have any evidence that they actually exist, before assigning actions and thoughts to them ?
 
Anders Lindman said:
Many scientists believe the result from CERN will challenge Einstein's theories.
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You know... "challenge" doesn't necessarily mean "attempt to disprove". Sometimes you challenge theories to see how they hold up to new ideas. Einstein's theories have held up to such challenges in the past. Some parts may not hold perfectly true forever, sure, but that's OK.

Also, if there was such a large number of mainstream scientists that believe Einstein's theories to be wildly incorrect, there'd be much more noise about it than you... posting on a message board...

I'm sorry, but you're either trolling or delusional. In the unfortunate case that it may be the latter, I suggest you seek help. It's a good sign if you do so willingly.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Many scientists believe the result from CERN will challenge Einstein's theories.
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Actually, the overwhelming majority, from what I can tell, are pretty sure this is just an error somewhere. The vast majority of the time that's how stuff like this pans out. That's not to say some scientists aren't excited by the possibility, because new physics would be really cool. That's different than thinking the result will stand up to careful trials and examination.

Then again, anyone involved in the CERN experiment or anything else has to be in on your crazy conspiracy theory. All of them work with and observe particles that follow special relativity in terms of their decay and so forth. They have to deal with all sorts of consequences of Relativity on a daily basis. Ergo, they are all dirty liars according to you, the CERN team included.

Going by your conspiracy, any results from CERN are results from the Conspiracy otherwise they never would have been released (and if the scientists were rebelling they'd surely be silenced permanently). Therefore, whatever new comes out of it is just what the conspiracy wants you to think.
 
Belz... said:
1) Your first sentence is an assumption.

2) The truth value of your second sentence is not known.

3) Even if both your sentences are true, your conclusion does not follow from your premises. It could be that living beings experience time in a certain way that does not preclude time from being a dimension as per your first sentence.

So it seems your basic claim, that time is not a dimension, is wrong. Therefore the rest of your argument is not worth discussing.
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I now looked up the definition of dimension:

"A measurement of length in one direction." -- http://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/dimension.html

So, ok, I guess time can be measured as a length in seconds for example BUT time is a result from an expansion of information, so to calculate time requires equations that treat past and future differently. Einstein's equations treat time the same for past and future, just like Newtonian physics. That's a too naive view of time.
 
Drachasor said:
Then again, anyone involved in the CERN experiment or anything else has to be in on your crazy conspiracy theory.
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A few gatekeeper scientists at CERN probably, but the vast majority of the scientists at CERN have no clue that Einstein's theories are a hoax. They just do their compartmentalized part, and trust the old results created by gatekeeper scientists that confirm Einstein's theories.
 
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