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Does anyone here actually oppose Network Neutrality?

Nothing about net neutrality prevents ISPs from metering their rates of they want to. Some tried doing this back in the early days of the internet, consumers didn't like it.

So now they want to fool the consumers by advertising "20Mbps download speeds and unlimited use", and then throttling down high-bandwidth sites so as to restrict the amount of data you can d/l.

So the Netflix user sees that advertised for an attractive price, only to find out later the ISP is throttling Netflix to 56k dial-up speeds so it takes you a week to d/l your movie. But it just so happens they have a competing movie d/l site you can subscribe to, and they won't throttle that one!

And this is exactly what the ISPs want to do - create vertical monopolies by stifling competition from competitors through the throttling I just described. Under net neutrality, they wouldn't be allowed to throttle any particular site. All sites get the same priority and speed.

Without net neutrality, any web site capable of making money could thus be forced to make a deal with the few large ISPs (and by "make a deal" I mean pay money to them like a mafia protection racket) to keep from being throttled. Or the ISP might want to get into that business themselves if it's a big moneymaker and throttle all the competition.

In short, an absence of net neutrality rules places way to much power in too few companies, is anti-competitive, and will encourage vertical monopolies. This will stifle innovation and growth, not encourage it.

Again, well said. Net Neutrality simply means that ISPs must be "neutral" about the originator and content of the packets they consume. And as infrastructure becomes cheaper and cheaper, the prices should be coming down, not going up. The suggestion that this is in response to ISPs facing cost pressures is a canard.

Allowing an ISP to decide which packets warrant top speeds is basically death to the web as we know it.
 
Allowing an ISP to decide which packets warrant top speeds is basically death to the web as we know it.

But it will help birth a new web where the corporations, who always have our best interests in mind, tell us what we need to know!
 
picture.php


Here's Beck's take on the issue...I can see how he might fool some grey hairs with this non-sense. (especially with the puppy and the chalkboard)



Warning: watching the whole 11 minutes may cause irreparable damage.
 
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=100&pictureid=3682

Here's Beck's take on the issue...I can see how he might fool some grey hairs with this non-sense. (especially with the puppy and the chalkboard)



Warning: watching the whole 11 minutes may cause irreparable damage.

Wow, seriously, how can you lie for 11 minutes straight like that?

So if you watch that show, you think NN's all about how Obama wants to make sure the Soshalism takes over the intertubes by giving away free internet to the welfare queens and strapping young bucks?

What's sad is that this is a major fork in the road for E-Commerce and which direction we turn will be largely decided by people who have virtually no clue what they're talking about, thanks to Fox.
 
Here's Beck's take on the issue...I can see how he might fool some grey hairs with this non-sense.
Unfortunately, many of those "grey hairs" are in Congress and think their grandkid is a genius because she can send an email.
 
You're providing more evidence for WildCat's statement:

Network neutrality has nothing to do with what you pay an ISP to get online.

Before I even read the rest of your comment, let's see if I'm confused and have no clue.


Certain ISPs, especially the larger ones that provide big chunks of high-data "backbone", want to bandwidth throttle every major broadcaster (e.g. YouTube) unless they pay more for higher throughput.

Alternatively, they "let" same pay for even better throughput than they're getting now. Which sounds OK on the surface of it, but then there's the "slippery slope" of slow degradation of what's considered "normal" data transfer rates.


The Net Neutrality law would require all data to be the same, regardless of source or destination.


Close enough?






A lack of network neutrality will provide the exact net drag on capitalism (and technical innovation and pretty much everything overall) that you fear for everyone except the ISP's. Just to be absolutely clear:

A lack of network neutrality restricts free market, which stifles innovation and stagnates economy.​
This is the one time pro-capitalism, free market conservatives should absolutely be behind government regulation. To do otherwise is just blind adherence to talking point without understanding the principle behind it.

Actually, I am sympathetic to the idea of treating "The Internet" as a construct where anyone can play, be they an end user, or a data transfer provider. And you must all play by the same rules.

I'm not convinced I wish to take that stance, yet. But I suppose there's nothing stopping the big backbone providers from starting their own parallel Internet and trying to get people to sign up to that one, with restricted YouTube-unless-they-pay-extra.

Something tells me it wouldn't do so well.
 
Before I even read the rest of your comment, let's see if I'm confused and have no clue.


Certain ISPs, especially the larger ones that provide big chunks of high-data "backbone", want to bandwidth throttle every major broadcaster (e.g. YouTube) unless they pay more for higher throughput.

Not quite. They want to be able to throttle data based on who sent the data, not just what data was sent. Right now, they are already charging their customers for bandwidth. They have already covered their costs, and bandwidth and infrastructure are becoming cheaper, not more costly. What they want to do is also charge content providers, something they don't do now, for a "preferred" status, in which they can tier the speed at which they let the data through. Then they can charge extra to customers for access to the "preferred" sites. This will only end up costing consumers more for service, and stifle small businesses who could never afford to pay the "preferred" rates. Right now, you can get a dedicated server with pretty much unlimited bandwidth for around 99 bucks. If you buy a bunch of servers you can do it even cheaper and just pay for bandwidth. That means anyone with a good idea can produce a fast and responsive website and serve up whatever content they want (a good example is someone hosting an SVN farm like wush.net). Once the bandwidth is throttled for something like that, those guys will die. And that's bad for them and for their customers.
 
What Unabogie said, except this:
Then they can charge extra to customers for access to the "preferred" sites.
I haven't heard much push for this except in situations like what I described above for Skype and in cases where telcos provide "extra" services like V Cast. I don't really care about that so much, so long as they don't throttle down, say, YouTube in favor of V Cast.

Note that this does not prevent sites from providing premium content on their sites that users have to pay for, nor should it. It also doesn't take away the option of having a tiered pricing system for better connection speeds. It just prevents the middle men from slowing down speeds based on what type of data or content is being sent through the tubes.
 
But I suppose there's nothing stopping the big backbone providers from starting their own parallel Internet and trying to get people to sign up to that one, with restricted YouTube-unless-they-pay-extra.

There are very big capital costs involved in setting up an internet.
 
Sorry for necromancing this thread, but they're still at it.



It's been nearly four years. Is anyone still unclear what Network Neutrality or why it is such a phenomenally bad idea for everyone who doesn't own an ISP?
 
Ok, let's get a few facts straight here.

One, "net neutrality" means the federal government would get to start regulating Internet access.

Two, some big Internet providers support NN because they hope to influence the regulations and profit therefrom.

Three, NN would stifle innovation on the web.

http://www.cato.org/blog/net-neutrality-unintended-consequences

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...lity-rules-still-a-threat-to-internet-freedom

http://www.cato.org/events/dangers-network-neutrality-regulation

My Internet bill has gone DOWN over the last several years, and I have a faster speed.

So, no, I don't see any burning need to let the federal government essentially take over Internet access.
 
Wait, what? I think you have it backwards. The end of network neutrality would mean those things.
 
Ok, let's get a few facts straight here.

One, "net neutrality" means the federal government would get to start regulating Internet access.

Two, some big Internet providers support NN because they hope to influence the regulations and profit therefrom.

Three, NN would stifle innovation on the web.

Wait, what? I think you have it backwards. The end of network neutrality would mean those things.
tyr_13 is correct. Points 2 and 3 are the consequence of ending network neutrality.

Point 1 might be true if you consider the federal government preventing ISPs from tiering service to hosts "regulating internet access", but in reality it is still really the opposite. It would be the government preventing ISPs from throttling internet access to certain hosts.
 
It's been nearly four years. Is anyone still unclear what Network Neutrality [is]
Are you?

or why it is such a phenomenally bad idea for everyone who doesn't own an ISP?
I have pretty much always thought that what proponents of net neutrality in the US want the FCC to do, namely stitch up competition/innovation stifling regs with more of the same, is a bad idea. See the linked thread and this one.

This (and telecom in general) is an area where the EU is ahead of the US. And the EU does not have what you want the FCC to have.
 
Nope

I have pretty much always thought that what proponents of net neutrality in the US want the FCC to do, namely stitch up competition/innovation stifling regs with more of the same, is a bad idea. See the linked thread and this one.

This (and telecom in general) is an area where the EU is ahead of the US. And the EU does not have what you want the FCC to have.
Francesca, 3 years on and you still have no idea what Network Neutrality means in the US despite numerous attempts to explain it to you. I get that you'd like to completely re-invent US infrastructure so that it matches what is in the UK, but that isn't how it worked out. The US has to move forward from here. We cannot go back in time and change things.
 
Spoken like some fundy who shrieks that the US can't possibly have universal health system insurance either!

Copying stuff is actually not that hard.

Whatever :D

(ETA--While you are right to dismiss nonsense objections like: "The gummint will control ur intarwebz", you are wrong not to dismiss nonsense like: "The evilzz corporashuns will control ur intarwebz". But 50% right isn't amazing)
 
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Spoken like some fundy who shrieks that the US can't possibly have universal health system insurance either!

Copying stuff is actually not that hard.

Whatever :D
Depends on how much needs to be copied. I'd love to know how you propose we do so without the US government literally seizing a (explicative deleted) ton of infrastructure from private businesses to avoid paying an unbelievable amount through the nose.
 

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