Does anyone else sometimes wish

brodski said:
I quite agree- they misuse Orwell in the same way that the misuse all other evidence.
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And that is one of the two things that most infuriates me about them. The other is their failure to look beyond the initial goal, be it 'global mutiny' or stopping the war in Iraq.

At the time of the initial protests no-one seemed to be thinking in terms of what would happen if they didn't stop the war.

I asked a question in which I sketched out a situation vaguely similar to the actual one and asked what the person I asked would do. Most of the responses were no-answer answers and on a couple of occasions I was threatened with violence because I was a 'warmonger'!

Similarly current thinking does not seem to have got much beyond 'pull the troops out'. But then it didn't get much further than that in the late '60s - early 70's either.
 
mrfreeze said:
From what I remember, Alan Moore wanted his name off of the movie because they changed the conflict from fascism vs anarchy, to fascism vs democracy.
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You can still pick up on that storyline in the film, in that V's main drive seems less to be about freedom and more about destroying the government. In fact, its almost a plot within the plot. He talks about bringing freedom, etc... However, his actions seem to defy that very cause.

He's hell bent on revenge, kills anyone who gets in his way, torutures Evy, steals whatever he want's from the government, and jeopardizes the lives of all the people in who gather around parlament on Guy Fawke's day just so that he can finalize his revenge in a glorious explosion and final fracturing of the government.

So I think the plot's still there even if it is unintentional. Actions speak louder than words.
 
Graham2001 said:
At the time of the initial protests no-one seemed to be thinking in terms of what would happen if they didn't stop the war.
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So going in without a plan was a better choice than staying out without a plan? :confused:
 
gumboot said:
The Loose Change forum, it's like V for Vendetta, but without Natalie Portman or a Dario Marianelli score.

-Andrew
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If it were adapted to a daytime soap opera for preteens.

Killtown, I just... don't... know if I can trust you... without calling you first... I'm sorry... but you'll... have to leave...

Don't go...

Yes... go now, you must!!!
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brodski said:
So going in without a plan was a better choice than staying out without a plan? :confused:
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No and I didn't think so at the time either, but there was only so much recycling of Vietnam era slogans & retoric that I could stand.

Having the Australian Prime Minister (a man I disagree with on most things) confronted by protesters who were younger than I was (I was born the year the US pulled out of Vietnam) chanting "Hey! Hey! How many kids did you kill today!" before the troops had gone in was IMHO proof of a decided lack of imagination on the part of those running the protests.
 
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gumboot said:
The Loose Change forum, it's like V for Vendetta, but without Natalie Portman or a Dario Marianelli score.

-Andrew
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And without Stephen Fry, a fantastic wit who is great in everything he does, and an outspoken skeptic to boot!
 
Graham2001 said:
No and I didn't think so at the time either, but there was only so much recycling of Vietnam era slogans & retoric that I can stand.

Having the Australian Prime Minister (a man I disagree with on most things) confronted by protesters who were younger than I was (I was born the year the US pulled out of Vietnam) chanting "Hey! Hey! How many kids did you kill today!" before the troops had gone in was IMHO proof of a decided lack of imagination on the part of those running the protests.
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I agree that the protest slogans where piss poor, and many of the organisers for protests are nutters of the first degree, but then the opponent of my opponent is not necessarily my friend (I think enemy is too strong a word for me in this context)
 
brodski said:
I agree that the protest slogans where piss poor, and many of the organisers for protests are nutters of the first degree, but then the opponent of my opponent is not necessarily my friend (I think enemy is too strong a word for me in this context)
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It was more than that, from my point of view those people really did think that:

Iraq=Vietnam (wrong Dien Ben Phu would seem more appropriate.)

Bin Laden = Ho Chi Minh (wrong, insult to Ho Chi Minh)

Bush(the Younger) = L B Johnson

Like a great many things, this is not the 1960s/70s and things are not that simple, if they ever were....
 
Graham2001 said:
It was more than that, from my point of view those people really did think that:

Iraq=Vietnam (wrong Dien Ben Phu would seem more appropriate.)

Bin Laden = Ho Chi Minh (wrong, insult to Ho Chi Minh)

Bush(the Younger) = L B Johnson

Like a great many things, this is not the 1960s/70s and things are not that simple, if they ever were....
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I agree, provided that you don’t believe that “those people” is a group which includes everyone opposed to the Iraq invasion.
 
brodski said:
I agree, provided that you don’t believe that “those people” is a group which includes everyone opposed to the Iraq invasion.
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I don't, I opposed it, I just understood that the task of stopping it was a lot harder than most people thought and that thought had to be given to mitigating the consequences afterward if it could not be stopped.
 
Graham2001 said:
I don't, I opposed it, I just understood that the task of stopping it was a lot harder than most people thought and that thought had to be given to mitigating the consequences afterward if it could not be stopped.
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In that case we are totally on the same page.
 
brodski said:
How does inflation incresae value?
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I guess it depends if you're buying or selling...

The value of a human life has increased so the government gets less war for the number of lives expended.

-Andrew
 
mrfreeze said:
That George Orwell hadn't written 1984 so that retards would quit referencing it and acting like they are original or witty for doing so?
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Not as much as I wish The Matrix hadn't been made, for the same reason.
 
brodski said:
In the original book Moore tried to turn Fawlks into a hero- therefore it's not an Americanism at all, however it is not generally in keeping with the British view of Fawlks.
the real Guy Fawlks was an foreign trained terrorist, sent on a suicide mission to blow up a national monument and murder many people, in an effort to institute a theocracy. Sound familiar?
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Yeah, that's exactly the feeling I got when I saw it. I was embarrassed that they gave this OBL-type character so much glorification. And people bought in to that. I keep saying to people who saw it : "Don't you think they are making people like OBL the heros? Don't you think that's sick?" And they all reply: "the government should be afraid of its people"...

Bunch of idiots, they are.

He's blowing up buildings for crying out loud! And the Nathalie Portman character got brainwashed. Yeah, what a hero allright... :rolleyes:

And what about that "there are no coincidences" crap. I literally want to punch someone in the mouth when someone says that to me. ("Oops, my fist briefly coincided with you jaw there, sorry")
 
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