Does anyone else back up William Rodriguez's story?

[CHF]

Uhh, I thought I did. I think an explosive device was used in the basement of WTC: North Tower.

Yeah, used by "terrorists."

Care to identify which ones you're thinking of?

 

[Swing Dangler]

1) Many people witnessed the fireball, and described falling elevators, in the basement.

2) People, like Felipe David on B2 and Jose Sanchez on B4, suffered flash burns.

3) People, including William Rodriguez on B1 and Mike Pecoraro on B6, smelled kerosene after the blast. Do you think that's a coincidence?

4) All the explosions were reported at or near the freight elevator

5) There is no evidence of structural damage in the basement, much less damage from explosives massive enough to damage core columns. (Think of the photo I posted of the 1993 bomb damage, which did not destroy the parking garage columns.) The core walls were made of gypsum wallboard.

6) No one describes anything like a high explosive. No one was blown to pieces. High explosives do not produce persistent fireballs. The people in Turner's field office thought a bomb had gone off: a natural assumption. However, there isn't a single shred of evidence of a bomb going off. All evidence, from the impact zones down, is consistent with jet fuel igniting in the elevator shafts.

7) This happened in both towers.

1. Nobody witnessed a fireball from the collapse zone decending all the way from the impact zone to B-4 into the Path Platform. Many did witness the fireball near the impact zone which is to be expected. How many explosions were reported? If you are burnt in an elevator shaft in the basement or, does that mean the fireball came from the impact? No.
I'm sure you are aware that No. Car 50, the only elevator to reach the impact zone to the B-4. Car 6 reached the impact zone to B-1. Considering the structural damage in B-4 had to have come from elevator 50, then Arthuro the car's operator should be dead.

2. That doesn't mean the burn came from the impact zone. Those that suffered those burns should be found near or on Car 6 at B-1 to have had injuries from the impact zone. We know there is structure damage and human damage from below B-1.

3.Marine Aviation Mechanic Rob Bishop stated that jet fuel smells like cordite. The smell of cordite was also the smell at the Pentagon if I'm not mistaken. The smell of kerosene could have come from the cars in the parking garage. In fact, Mike P. thought the smell was coming from a burning car in the parking garage above them. Again, Mike is on B-6 which could only have been reached by car 50 correct? If the fireball caused the smell, why is Arthuro alive and mentions no fireball?

4. The evidence we have is from the witnesses themselves and Port Authority Transcripts and the reaction and panic of the PATH train commuters. We do not have any pictures of course taken of the sublevels prior to the collapse that I'm aware of. However, not having a picture does not disprove the testimony or refute the descriptions or prove a fireball caused the damage.

6. To my knowledge, none of the witnesses have experience with the effects of high explosives so as to be able to state, "That was a high explosive", with the exception of the people who suffered through the 1993 truck bombing. And sure enough there are several witnesses who were reminded or outright thought what happened was another truck bombing. The secretaries stated that a bomb went off and many of them were hurt but no mention of a fireball, or secondary fires and according to the injuries, you think they would have noticed a fireball entering the room. How persistent must a fireball be to ignite on impact where the jet fuel exploded, travel down a single elevator shaft all the way to the basement and still have the overpressure to damage the levels below B-1? Ed states 30 seconds after the building shakes. Now what he was told to perhaps explain the time difference is that fuel leaked into the shaft and then ignited by a spark. I'm wondering who told him that and who saw the spark.
Unless you are qualified to speak on the fireballs created by explosive devices, the persistence of the fireball is a moot point.

7. I have yet to study the accounts of the South Tower basement levels, so I agree that impacts happened on both towers and cannot comment on the events in the South Tower basement levels.

Lastly, can you explain why you put Daria's account as a link and/or source to Arturo's account in your paper or was it an error?

 

[Swing Dangler]

Sorry but I must retire for the evening. I will check back tommorrow.

For those who aren't familiar with me from SLC, I have no need to lie to support my contention. I will admit if I am wrong or shown to be wrong from the evidence. Again, I have no need to lie, so there is no reason to think so.

 

[Unsecured Coins]

as a guy who's field is very large bullets being fired out of a very large armored vehicle, I can and will tell you that cordite and kerosene smell nothing alike.

 

[CHF]

Nobody witnessed a fireball from the collapse zone decending all the way from the impact zone to B-4 into the Path Platform.

Well of course no one witnessed the fireball in the elevator shaft. If anyone did see it they'd be dead now.

What we do have is a) a lot of people smelling kerosene, b) a lot of burn victims, c) damage centered around the elevator shafts, d) no logical reason for a sub-level explosive being used in a top-down collapse.

I keep waiting for a twoofer to contact those burn victims and ask them what casued their burns.

I will admit if I am wrong or shown to be wrong from the evidence.

 

[Gravy]

Lastly, can you explain why you put Daria's account as a link and/or source to Arturo's account in your paper or was it an error?

It was corrected the first day the paper was up.

 

[Gravy]

1. Nobody witnessed a fireball from the collapse zone decending all the way from the impact zone to B-4 into the Path Platform.

Straw man. Who is claiming that that happened? (Hint: remember when I said that you're missing something big, and that it's in my paper?)

 

[Gravy]

2. That doesn't mean the burn came from the impact zone.

Straw man.

We know there is structure damage and human damage from below B-1.

We do? Please present your evidence of structural damage. I believe I've asked this of you before.

3.Marine Aviation Mechanic Rob Bishop stated that jet fuel smells like cordite. The smell of cordite was also the smell at the Pentagon if I'm not mistaken.

I am aware of one person, a lawyer (Don Perkal, I believe), describing a cordite smell at the Pentagon. Many others described smelling and contacting kerosene or jet fuel. Please see the Pentagon section of the page linked in my signature.

The smell of kerosene could have come from the cars in the parking garage.

Please read my paper for all the accounts of kerosene smell throughout the towers. William Rodriguez and others smelled kerosene immediately after the blast. I have seen no accounts of burning cars in the parking garages before the collapses. I have been around many burning cars and never noted a kerosene smell.

In fact, Mike P. thought the smell was coming from a burning car in the parking garage above them. Again, Mike is on B-6 which could only have been reached by car 50 correct? If the fireball caused the smell, why is Arthuro alive and mentions no fireball?

I strongly suggest that you read Arturo Griffith's account again.

4. The evidence we have is from the witnesses themselves and Port Authority Transcripts and the reaction and panic of the PATH train commuters. We do not have any pictures of course taken of the sublevels prior to the collapse that I'm aware of. However, not having a picture does not disprove the testimony or refute the descriptions or prove a fireball caused the damage.

Just another kerosene coincidence, I guess:

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]S. Alexander: My normal commute involves taking the PATH train from New Jersey to WTC in New York. I reached WTC around 8:57 am and as soon as the doors opened we were engulfed by some chemical that smelled like kerosene and smoke. Not realizing what had happened I walked up the escalator to the ground floor of the WTC where Police officers were directing all commuters to leave the building as soon as possible. Emerging outside of WTC, it looked like a bomb had exploded because there was debris everywhere, paper, fibre-glass insulation and numerous other office stationary material. In my mind I recalled the bombing from 1993 and thought this was something very similar.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/1544197.stm[/FONT]

6. To my knowledge, none of the witnesses have experience with the effects of high explosives so as to be able to state, "That was a high explosive", with the exception of the people who suffered through the 1993 truck bombing. And sure enough there are several witnesses who were reminded or outright thought what happened was another truck bombing. The secretaries stated that a bomb went off and many of them were hurt but no mention of a fireball, or secondary fires and according to the injuries, you think they would have noticed a fireball entering the room. How persistent must a fireball be to ignite on impact where the jet fuel exploded, travel down a single elevator shaft all the way to the basement and still have the overpressure to damage the levels below B-1? Ed states 30 seconds after the building shakes. Now what he was told to perhaps explain the time difference is that fuel leaked into the shaft and then ignited by a spark. I'm wondering who told him that and who saw the spark.
Unless you are qualified to speak on the fireballs created by explosive devices, the persistence of the fireball is a moot point.

The witnesses are alive after being burned by fireballs from the elevator shaft. That's how we know it wasn't high explosives, my friend. Get it?

7. I have yet to study the accounts of the South Tower basement levels, so I agree that impacts happened on both towers and cannot comment on the events in the South Tower basement levels.

Actually, I don't have any accounts from the south tower basement. However, the south tower lobby accounts of the elevator mechanic and of "Tilly" are perhaps the most instructive of any witness accounts. If you come across any from the basement, let me know.

 

[LashL]

Sorry but I must retire for the evening. I will check back tommorrow.

No apologies necessary.

For those who aren't familiar with me from SLC, I have no need to lie to support my contention.

I am not familiar with you from SLC or elsewhere, but around here, as I'm sure you know, people are expected to support their contentions with facts and evidence, and so far, you have not done so. In fact, you have completely and utterly failed to do so. I refer you to my prior posts above, to which you have offered no meaningful response whatsoever in support of your assertions. Please do so at your earliest opportunity.

ETA: I have not seen anyone here accuse you of lying so your post (the one that I have quoted here) strikes me as a strange turn of phrase. People here do indeed expect you to back up your claims with facts and evidence rather than simply spouting uninformed opinion, but that does not equate to calling you a liar.

If and when you are in a position to offer facts and evidence in support of your assertions, it would be a good idea to point them out. (You might want to look up the meaning of "facts" and "evidence" first.)

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Actually, I think it did spill down the shaft and ignite a few seconds later. NIST estimates that 1/3 of the fuel burned in the initial fireball (because the oxygen immediately available was soon depleted), leaving the rest to flow where it may and burn later.

[nitpick]

Relevant section of the NIST report regarding fire progression:

2.2.1.2 Fire Development
It is estimated, based on information compiled from Government sources, that each aircraft contained about 10,000 gallons of jet fuel upon impact into the buildings. A review of photographic and video records show that the aircraft fully entered the buildings prior to any visual evidence of flames at the exteriors of the buildings. This suggests that, as the aircraft crashed into and plowed across the buildings, they distributed jet fuel throughout the impact area to form a flammable “cloud.” Ignition of this cloud resulted in a rapid pressure rise, expelling a fuel rich mixture from the impact area into shafts and through other openings
caused by the crashes, resulting in dramatic fireballs.

Although only limited video footage is available that shows the crash of American Airlines Flight 11 into WTC 1 and the ensuing fireballs, extensive video records of the impact of United Airlines Flight 175 into WTC 2 are available. These videos show that three fireballs emanated from WTC 2 on the south, east, and west faces. The fireballs grew slowly, reaching their full size after about 2 seconds. The diameters of the fireballs were greater than 200 feet, exceeding the width of the building. Such fireballs were formed when the expelled jet fuel dispersed and flames traveled through the resulting fuel/air mixture. Experimentally
based correlations for similar fireballs (Zalosh 1995) were used to estimate the amount of fuel consumed.

The precise size of the fireballs and their exact shapes are not well defined; therefore, there is some uncertainty associated with estimates of the amount of fuel consumed by these effects. Calculations indicate that between 1,000 and 3,000 gallons of jet fuel were likely consumed in this manner. Barring additional information, it is reasonable to assume that an approximately similar amount of jet fuel was consumed by fireballs as the aircraft struck WTC 1.

Although dramatic, these fireballs did not explode or generate a shock wave. If an explosion or detonation had occurred, the expansion of the burning gasses would have taken place in microseconds, not the 2 seconds observed. Therefore, although there were some overpressures, it is unlikely that the fireballs, being external to the buildings, would have resulted in significant structural damage. It is not known whether the windows that were broken shortly after impact were broken by these external overpressures, overpressures
internal to the building, the heat of the fire, or flying debris. The first arriving firefighters observed that the windows of WTC 1 were broken out at the Concourse level. This breakage was most likely caused by overpressure in the elevator shafts. Damage to the walls of the
elevator shafts was also observed as low as the 23rd floor, presumably as a result of the overpressures developed by the burning of the vapor cloud on the impact floors.

If one assumes that approximately 3,000 gallons of fuel were consumed in the initial fireballs, then the remainder either escaped the impact floors in the manners described above or was consumed by the fire on the impact floors. If half flowed away, then approximately 4,000 gallons remained on the impact floors to be consumed in the fires that followed. The jet fuel in the aerosol would have burned out as fast as the flame could spread through it, igniting almost every combustible on the floors involved. Fuel that fell to the floor and
did not flow out of the building would have burned as a pool or spill fire at the point where it came to rest.

The time to consume the jet fuel can be reasonably computed. At the upper bound, if one assumes that all 10,000 gallons of fuel were evenly spread across a single building floor, it would form a pool that would be consumed by fire in less than 5 minutes (SFPE 1995) provided sufficient air for combustion was available. In reality, the jet fuel would have been distributed over multiple floors, and some would have been transported to other locations. Some would have been absorbed by carpeting or other furnishings, consumed in the flash fire in the aerosol, expelled and consumed externally in the fireballs, or flowed away from the fire floors. Accounting for these factors, it is believed that almost all of the jet fuel that remained on the impact floors was consumed in the first few minutes of the fire.

As the jet fuel burned, the resulting heat ignited office contents throughout a major portion of several of the impact floors, as well as combustible material within the aircraft itself.
A limited amount of physical evidence about the fires is available in the form of videos and still photographs of the buildings and the smoke plume generated soon after the initial attack. Estimates of the buoyant energy in the plume were obtained by plotting the rise of the smoke plume, which is governed by buoyancy in the vertical direction and by the wind in the horizontal direction. Using the Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) fire model, Fire Dynamics Simulator Ver. 1 (FDS1), fire scientists at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) (Rehm, et al. 2002) were able to mathematically approximate the size of fires required to produce such a smoke plume. As input to this model, an estimate of the openings available to provide ventilation for the fires was obtained from an examination of photographs taken of the damaged tower. Meteorological data on wind velocity and atmospheric temperatures were provided by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) based on reports from the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS). The information used weather monitoring instruments onboard three aircraft that departed from LaGuardia and Newark airports between 7:15 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. on September 11, 2001. The wind speed at heights equal to the upper stories of the towers was in the range of 10–20 mph. The outside temperatures over the height of the building were 20–21 °C (68–70 °F).

The modeling suggests a peak total rate of fire energy output on the order of 3–5 trillion Btu/hr, around 1–1.5 gigawatts (GW), for each of the two towers. From one third to one half of this energy flowed out of the structures. This vented energy was the force that drove the external smoke plume. The vented energy and accompanying smoke from both towers combined into a single plume. The energy output from each of the two buildings is similar to the power output of a commercial power generating station. The modeling also suggests ceiling gas temperatures of 1,000 °C (1,800 °F), with an estimated confidence of plus
or minus 100 °C (200 °F) or about 900–1,100 °C (1,600–2,000 °F). A major portion of the uncertainty in these estimates is due to the scarcity of data regarding the initial conditions within the building and how the aircraft impact changed the geometry and fuel loading. Temperatures may have been as high as 900–1,100 °C (1,700–2,000 °F) in some areas and 400–800 °C (800–1,500 °F) in others.

The viability of a 3–5 trillion Btu/hr (1–1.15 GW) fire depends on the fuel and air supply. The surface area of office contents needed to support such a fire ranges from about 30,000–50,000 square feet, depending on the composition and final arrangement of the contents and the fuel loading present. Given the typical occupied area of a floor as approximately 30,000 square feet, it can be seen that simultaneous fire involvement of an area equal to 1–2 entire floors can produce such a fire. Fuel loads are typically described in terms of the equivalent weight of wood. Fuel loads in office-type occupancies typically range from about 4–12 psf, with the mean slightly less than 8 psf (Culver 1977). File rooms, libraries, and similar concentrations of paper materials have significantly higher concentrations of fuel. At the burning rate necessary to yield these fires, a fuel load of about 5 psf would be required to provide sufficient fuel to maintain the fire at full force for an hour, and twice that quantity to maintain it for 2 hours. The air needed to support combustion would be on the order of 600,000–1,000,000 cubic feet per minute.

Air supply to support the fires was primarily provided by openings in the exterior walls that were created by the aircraft impacts and fireballs, as well as by additional window breakage from the ensuing heat of the fires. Table 2.1 lists the estimated exterior wall openings used in these calculations. Although the table shows the openings on a floor-by-floor basis, several of the openings, particularly in the area of impact, actually spanned several floors (see Figure 2-17).

Sometimes, interior shafts in burning high-rise buildings also deliver significant quantities of air to a fire, through a phenomenon known as “stack effect,” which is created when differences between the ambient exterior air temperatures and the air temperatures inside the building result in differential air pressures, drawing air up through the shafts to the fire area. Because outside and inside temperatures appear to have been virtually the same on September 11, this stack effect was not expected to be strong in this case.

Based on photographic evidence, the fire burned as a distributed collection of large but separate fires with significant temperature variations from space to space, depending on the type and arrangement of combustible material present and the available air for combustion in each particular space. Consequently, the temperature and related incident heat flux to the structural elements varied with both time and location. This information is not currently available, but could be modeled with advanced CFD fire models.

Damage caused by the aircraft impacts is believed to have disrupted the sprinkler and fire standpipe systems, preventing effective operation of either the manual or automatic suppression systems. Even if these systems had not been compromised by the impacts, they would likely have been ineffective. It is believed that the initial flash fires of jet fuel would have opened so many sprinkler heads that the systems would have quickly depressurized and been unable to effectively deliver water to the large area of fire involvement. Further, the initial spread of fires was so extensive as to make occupant use of small hose streams ineffective.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2033916#post2033916 [/nitpick]

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I will not be respoding to the why and the who at this point. That is pure speculation. If we can agree that a fireball didn't cause the damage, and we can rule out other things that might have caused the destruction and human damage, and reach the conclusion that an explosive device was used, then we can move on to the why and the who.

The who and why only serve to distract from reaching an acceptance of the event itself.

Executive Summary
The use of "explosive" and "explosion" interchangeably in discussion is erroneous; and the use of "explosions" as evidence of "explosives" is fundamentally flawed.

Loud Noises (aka bangs, booms, cracks, explosions (heard but not seen) etc)
Q. What are loud noises?
A. Within the context of this post I will be defining loud noises as "Sound or a sound that is loud, unpleasant, unexpected, or undesired." http://www.thefreedictionary.com/noise (def. #1)

Explosions
Q. What are explosions?
A. Wikipedia defines ExplosionsWP as "a sudden increase in volume and release of energy in a violent manner, usually with the generation of high temperatures and the release of gases. An explosion causes pressure waves in the local medium in which it occurs. Explosions are categorized as deflagrations if these waves are subsonic and detonations if they are supersonic (shock waves)."

Q. What are causes of explosions?
A. The Wikipedia article on ExplosionsWP lists a number of causes of explosions:

• Chemical explosions
• Nuclear explosions
• Steam boiler explosions
• Electrical explosions
• Volcanic explosions
• Astronomical event explosions and
• Exploding animals

Explosives
Q. What are explosives?
A. Wikipedia defines ExplosivesWP as "a material that either is chemically or otherwise energetically unstable or produces a sudden expansion of the material usually accompanied by the production of heat and large changes in pressure (and typically also a flash and/or loud noise) upon initiation; this is called the explosion."

The Logic
Argument 1
P1: If an explosive is detonated then there will be an explosion;
P2: An explosive is detonated;
C: Therefore, there was an explosion.

This is a logically sound argument. P1 is true by definition of what an explosive does and is included in the definition of things that can cause explosions.
This is known as affirming the antecedent and is expressed as:
P1: If A then B;
P2: A;
C: Therefore, B.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Argument 2
P1: If there is an explosion, then you will hear a loud noise;
P2: There was an explosion;
C: Therefore, it was heard as a loud noise.

This is a logically sound argument. P1 is true as, by definition, explosions create shock-waves. The shock-waves are heard and meet the criteria of being a loud noise.
This is known as affirming the antecedent and is expressed as:
P1: If A then B;
P2: A;
C: Therefore, B.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Argument 3
P1: If there is an explosion then you will hear a loud noise;
P2: There was a loud noise;
C: Therefore, there was an explosion.

This is not a logically sound argument as there are, by definition of what a loud noise is, causes of loud noises that are not explosions (ex. steel bar snapping, book slamming on the floor, etc).
This is known as affirming the consequent and is a logical fallacy. It is expressed as:
P1: If A then B;
P2: B;
C: Therefore, A.

The generalized expression of why it is fallacious is:
P1: If A then B;
P2: If C then B;
P3: B;
C: Therefore, A.

Expressed as such, it is clear why it is not a sound logical argument.

It can be made in to a sound logical argument with the addition of another premise (which must be shown to be true), such that:
P1: If A then B;
P2: Only A can cause B;
P3: B;
C: Therefore, A.

Therefore, we would have to be able to say:
P1: If there is an explosion then you will hear a loud noise;
P2: Only explosions can cause loud noises;
P3: There was a loud noise;
C: Therefore, there was an explosion.

This is clearly an untenable argument.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Argument 4
P1: If an explosive is detonated then there will be an explosion;
P2: There was an explosion;
C: Therefore, there was an explosive was detonated.

This is not a logically sound argument as there are, by definition of what a loud noise is, causes of loud noises that are not explosions (ex. steel bar snapping, book slamming on the floor, etc).
This is known as affirming the consequent and is a logical fallacy. It is expressed as:
P1: If A then B;
P2: B;
C: Therefore, A.

The generalized expression of why it is fallacious is:
P1: If A then B;
P2: If C then B;
P3: B;
C: Therefore, A.

Expressed as such, it is clear why it is not a sound logical argument.

It can be made in to a sound logical argument with the addition of another premise (which must be shown to be true), such that:
P1: If A then B;
P2: Only A can cause B;
P3: B;
C: Therefore, A.

This requirement means that for proponent of CD in the WTC to claim that witness reports of explosions are evidence of the use of explosives the following must be true:
P1: If an explosive is detonated then there will be an explosion;
P2: Only explosives can cause explosions;
P3: There was an explosion;
C: Therefore, there was an explosive was detonated.

This clearly runs counter to the definition of what an explosion is, and is shown to not be true by the examples cited for causes of explosions that do not fall in to the category of explosives. Therefore, this is also an untenable argument.

What does this mean for discussion?
It means that...

• ... if a witness reported hearing a loud noise and called it an explosion we can not conclude it was caused by an explosion
• ... if a witness reported seeing an explosion we can not conclude it was caused by an explosive
• ... the term "explosion" and "explosive" can not be used interchangeably

 

[Gravy]

A. The Wikipedia article on ExplosionsWP lists a number of causes of explosions:

• Chemical explosions
• Nuclear explosions
• Steam boiler explosions
• Electrical explosions
• Volcanic explosions
• Astronomical event explosions and
• Exploding animals

Ha! I told you asteriods needed consideration!

I had an English Bulldog like that once, despite many changes of diet.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Ha! I told you asteriods needed consideration!

I had an English Bulldog like that once, despite many changes of diet.

You know, when I was putting that post together originally, I knew that the asploding animals was completely irrelevant, but it was just so dang funny I couldn't force myself to take it out as a source of explosions.

 

[Gravy]

You know, when I was putting that post together originally, I knew that the asploding animals was completely irrelevant, but it was just so dang funny I couldn't force myself to take it out as a source of explosions.

You definitely did the right thing.

 

[Swing Dangler]

The Case for an Explosive Device in the Sub-levels of WTC: North Tower

Thursday, March 8, 2007
The Case For Explosives At The World Trade Center: North Tower Sublevel

I will not attempt the blame game with this premise. I am not a structural engineer or an explosives expert. I do have reasonable doubts about the official story. My research to this point on a personal level has been with a trained explosive expert in the U.S. military and with a construction engineer from Purdue University however I am not using their expertise in this premise as they have not allowed me to release their names.
I have read reports in support of the NIST and rebuttals to the NIST report. I have also read the NIST report summary as posted online. The reason for this hypothesis is to consider what was reponsible for the event that took place in the North Tower basement levels. The existence for this hypothesis is four-fold.

1. The NIST did not attempt to explain the reason for a global collapse nor consider the explosive device hypothesis because they saw no evidence. Does that make the existence of explosive devices(ED) invalid? No.

2. NIST provided no evidence to support their view that the collapse of upper floors led to a progressive collapse or more importantly a global collapse. We have no idea if the event in the basement assisted in the collape of the North Tower.

3. The NIST made a conscience decision not to test for explosive residue at the WTC complex despite the overwhelming evidence that something occurred in the sublevels of WTC North Tower. This would have proven one way or another whether an explosive device was used in the sublevels of the North Tower, however, no test by any Federal Agency was conducted.

4. The historical record of terrorism against America is another valid reason to explore the ED hypothesis. I'm sure you are all aware of the 1993 WTC attack using a truck bomb in the subbasement at the WTC. If terrorists could use this tactic of placing an explosive device in their target once, isn’t it reasonable to suggest they might try that tactic again, especially when combined with the use of planes? The reasonable person would think so.

Please do not confuse the use of an explosive device with controlled demolition. As Implosion World stated the collapses did not have the same characteristics of a traditional controlled demolition. With that issue, I do agree to a point. The collapse did not start at the bottom as per a traditional demolition but the attack on the structure began with the plane impact and in the basement sublevels and centered around the core where the elevator shafts were located. There is some testimony supporting an explosion taking place in the basement prior to impact, however, the timing of the event is not the premise of this examination, only the fact that an explosive event did occur that can not be attributed to a fireball from jet fuel.

My first piece of evidence for arguing for an explosive device is the logical sequence of events that followed the explosive sound. Numerous things can sound like explosions. I do not dispute this. However, it is the reaction and change of the surroundings, the injuries to people, and their reactions and thoughts following the sound of the explosion which points to a device in the basement sublevels. All of the accounts below follow this locigcal sequence.

The second piece of evidence is the damage to the structure and victims surroundings. A few examples of structural damage include: walls that are cracked or destroyed, a parking garage is obliterated , a machine shop is destroyed, failing celings, as well as a multiple cave-ins.

Numerous witnesses in the sublevels have stated on record regarding the damage in the substructure of WTC-North Tower. To avoid the accusation of cherry picking or quote mining, I have provided the relevant link after each account. Also with each witness I have tried to use their words verbatim in the description of events that they experienced.

The conclusion of the paper will show that it is impossible for a fireball from the first impact of the plane to have caused the type of personal and structural damage experienced and reported. Bsbray of studyof911.com has provided an excellent analysis refuting the fireball theory so I have no intention of reinventing the wheel.


A. Employees of WTC-North Tower Who Describe The Event In The North Tower Sub-levels

1.Mike Pecoraro, Stationary Engineer and unnamed Co-Worker
a)Location: Sub-level C
b) Sees 'lights flicker, the Asst. Engineer reports to him hearing a large
explosion,
c) Sees white smoke, and reports the smell of kerosene.
d) The smell he thought coming from perhaps a burning car in the parking garage above them.
e) Kerosene smell, not a kerosene fire. Burning Kerosene does not produce white smoke.
f) Damage after the sound of an explosion: When the two arrived at the C level, they
found the machine shop gone. "There was nothing there but rubble, "Mike said.
"We're talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press gone!"
g) Location of damage-C-level
h) The two made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone.
i) "There were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and you can't see anything" he said.
j) Parking garage and walls are gone.
k) As they ascended to the B Level they were astonished to see a steel and concrete fire door that weighed about 300 pounds,wrinkled up "like a piece of aluminum foil" and lying on the floor.
l)Comments, "They got us again referring to the WTC 93 bombing. He saw similar things after that bombing.
m) He was convinced a bomb had went off in the building.
n) Observes two victims, badly burned an injured.
Brief summary of experience: An explosive sound heard, followed by white smoke with massive damage on multiple floors, a parking garage destroyed, with burned and injured victims. All of this damage reported by this witness but no mention of fire damage or one iota of a fireball. There is also no soot reported in the lobby from the fireball from the plane that supposedly caused the damage. Keep in mind as you continue to read the accounts, that a single fireball from the impact zone almost 80 floors above traveled down a single elevator shaft, failed to kill or even burn the elevator operator, Arturo Griffith, but causes all of this damage in the various levels of the basement.
Source: Chief Engineer http://www.chiefengineer.org/article.cfm?seqnum1=1029

2. Jose Sanchez, Maintience Worker & co-worker, Chino
a)Location: Sublevel 4 workshop.
b) Hears the sound of an explosion,” It sounded like a bomb went off."
c) Sees lights flicker.
d) Fireball in the freight elevator.
e) Singes hair and drops co-worker Chino to his knees.
f) Room fills with smoke, "I believe it was a bomb that blew up inside the building."
g) Chino's leg and knee apparently broken. He can't walk and gets assistance from Sanchez.
h) Fireballs do not break legs, however, concussion force can and does.
i) Exits at parking level lot on sub level 4 and sees many people fleeing.
j) "It took about 15 or 20 minutes to get outside and for me it was like a bomb with huge smoke all around.”
i) Comments he is lucky to be alive because he wasn't near the stairwell.
Brief Summary: The sound of an explosion is heard, damage to a freight elevator takes place and the victim feels that a bomb caused the damage. He does experience a fireball, but it will be shown not to orginate from jet fuel at impact, but from at least the detonation of at least one explosive device.
Source: Second Janitor Story

3. Phillip Morelli, construction worker, 7 year employee at WTC 1
a) Location-4th sublevel, B-4 main freight car
b) "That is when I got blown. The impact of the explosion or whatever
happened threw me to the floor. And that’s when everything started happenin'. It knocked me right to the floor. You didn't know what it was, you just assumed something fell over in the loading dock. Something very heavy, something very big. You don't know what happened then all the sudden you just felt the floor movin' and you get up... the walls, you know now I'm hearing that the main freight car, the elevators, you know what I mean fell down so I was right near the main freight car so I assumed what that was. Then you heard that comin' towards ya. I was racing I was goin' towards the bathroom, all of the sudden I opened the door I didn't know it was the bathroom and then the big impact happened again and then all the ceiling tiles started falling down the light fixtures were falling swinging, swinging out of the ceiling. I came runnin'out of the door and everything,the walls were down and I started runnin' towards the parkin' lots."
c) Nearly 100 floors below where the first plane hit.
d) Thought a car or something exploded on B-1 or something big and heavy got delivered and fell over.
e) Knew it was something big floor was moving underneath him
f) Reports smoke and people screaming
g) Got to parking lot and describes a lot of smoke, people screaming, and helping a person with a broken leg.
h) He and others run up the ramp from 1 to 2, as you have to do that to get out of the subbasement, it happens all over again. And got thrown to the floor. But unaware of a second plane hit.
i) Walls in the basement caved in.
j) Knows people got killed, broken legs, and reconstructive surgery because the walls hit them in the face.
k) No matter where you were in the building, you weren't safe.
l) Reports no fireball as the official story proposes.
Brief Summary: An explosion throws Phillip to the ground and causes the floor to move underneath him. The explosion destroys walls and a freight elevator that he was near. He runs to the bathroom and another explosion causes damage to the ceiling and lights and injured people are seen in parking garage. All of this damage people and the structure but not a single mention of the raging fireball that NIST states caused all of this damage. Phillip attempts to escape by going to Tower 2 exit and gets thrown to the ground for a second time!
Source-NY1 News
4. Marlene Cruz, Carpenter, employee for 15 years
a) Location: elevator subbasement B, WTC 1
b) Hears an explosion that blows up the elevator, the elevator falls, and gets stuck at B level.
c) Herself and the elevator operator are injured.
d) She reports her body felt like it was run over by a truck and has a sprained leg.
e) After hearing the explosion she states, "Here we go again another bomb" in
reference to her experience with the 1993 truck bombing.
f) States seeing her friend Arthur Delbianco who was fine after she go hurt.
They hear screams. He was going around looking for other people, trying to break through doors to see who he found. She states Arthur got hurt after her. No description is given of how he was hurt. However, in Arthur's account a blast from behind them throws them 25-50 feet.
Brief Summary: Marlene hears an explosion, elevator is blown up, stops at B-1 Marlene and the elevator worker suffer injuries. She gives no mention of burns from a raging fireballf. She mentions no smoke or fire at all from a jet fuel. However, the explosion reminds her of the 1993 truck bomb and she thinks it is another bomb.
Source: ABC News Special Report with Peter Jennings

5. Arthur Delbianco-
a. gLocation: Above the basement but below the impact zone and eventually subbasement B, WTC 1
b. Aruthur after the impact, assists in taking people down to the lobby. He mentions no fire or fireball in his elevator or his elevator shaft.
c. He then travels to sub level 1 and finds his friend Marlene Cruz and Hursley Lever, a mechanic.
d. He sees sprinklers are spraying water and ceiling tiles collapsed after arrivin in the basement.
e. As the three are running through the chaos, when something occurs.
f. "The blast came from behind us and just pushed us down. We just slid for 25 or 50 feet."
g. He suffers personal injury in the form of a seperated shoulder and broken knee.
h. A fireman rescues him.
Brief Summary: Here is a man that rescues several people below the impact zone and then travels to the sub level B. All this time, no fireball is experienced or secondary fires reported. When he ends up in the sub level B, another explosion that reminded Marlene of the 1993 truck bombing takes place causing his personal injuries. Yet no mention of a fireball in the basement. Considering that the event that took place in the basement was so near the impact of the plane, when did a firefighter arrive a B level and why only one?
Source: San Fransico Chronicle, September 14, 2001

6. Felipe David, employee of Aramark Co.
a. Location-office sub level 1
b. Explosion heard below sub level 1.
c. The building started shaking.
d. Dust was flying everywhere.
e. It got real hot.
f. Reports feeling burned.
g. “I threw myself onto the floor, covered my face because I felt like I was burned.
h"I sat there for a couple of seconds on the floor and felt like I was going to die, saying to myself
‘God, please give me strength.”
i. Severely burned on his face, arms and hands with skin hanging from his body.
j. Reports to several others in an office that there was an explosion.
k. Other state that it is good he is alive despite his appearance.
Brief Summary: Explosion heard below him, feels heat and is burned severally, and reports an explosion. The event that caused personal damage was below him and reports no fireball.
Source: Colombia television programming in Spanish on the Red Continental
De Noticias (RNC) with Gurisatti a Colombian reporter as a part of
an in-depth 9/11 documentary after the foreign station spent a month
in New York in 2002 shooting the project.

7. Salvatore Giambanco, a WTC office painter, just getting off of an elevator
a. Location, sub-level 1 opposite side of Felipe David.
b. Hears an explosion, reports smoke came from all over.
c. "An incredible force of wind swept everything away."
d. Standing with another man, he hears a screaming woman.
e. As a reaction to the wind, Salavatore and the unidentified man jump back into the elevator.
f. The elevator descends to between sub-level B-2 and B-3.
g. Witnesses other people through the slot running and screaming.
h. Water begins to enter the elevator apparently from the sprinkler system.
i. Salvatore begins to fear for his life and is screaming.
j. "God, please help us.’ At that point, I was resigned to the fact I was going to die”
k. Hears William Rodriguez ask, "How many people are down there?"
l. Rodriguez rescues the two men.
m. Rides in an ambulance to the hospital.
n. “I remember riding in the ambulance that morning and looking back, thinking it had to be a bomb."
o. Upon learning an airplane had hit the tower: “Later they told me it was an airplane that hit the towers, but how could it just be an airplane? I know all the newspapers were saying that, but it was just too incredible to believe if you heard and experienced what I did. It had to be a bomb.”
Brief Summary: Salavatore hears an explosion, observes human damage from the explosion, and reacts to the environmental impact of the explosion, and believes it was a bomb. He mentions no fireball decending the elevator shaft that he jumped back into!
Source: Colombia television programming in Spanish on the Red Continental
De Noticias (RNC) with Gurisatti a Colombian reporter as a part of
an indepth 9/11 documentary after the foreign station spent a month
in New York in 2002 shooting the project.


8. Bobby Hall-ABM Engineering Employee
Location: 50 feet underground apparently B-1, possibly B-2 walking from the garage into the building to the office.
a. “We were going to our shop to make a call and find out what the first explosion was and the place just came apart on us,” “What we found out later was the hot wind was the number 50 freight car falling from the 88th floor and it just came into the area where we were and just blew us back out into the parking lot.”
b. He is thrown into a steel door.
c. Assists two other injured men after struggling to his feet.
d. He suffers an injury to his hand, numbness in his hand, and has had surgery.
Brief Summary: A key point to Bobby’s account strangely enough lacks a fireball traveling down the elevator shaft. He hears one explosion and is on the way to his office to find out what it was, and then the place came apart. The fact that he is told that wind from the elevator is what blew them back into the parking lot is strange. This elevator air does not match Arturo’s account of Number 50 freight car’s breaks stopping his elevator at floor 15 or 16. In People Magazine October 1,2001 the elevator finally comes to rest at the lobby. So it is highly doubtful it is air from an elevator that impacted Mr. Hall and his co-worker, as they were told. His account of a hot wind gust matches Salvatore Giambanco’s account of large amount of wind sweeping everything away after the explosion. In reality, in Bobby's case it appears it was the pressure force from an explosion in the sub-basement area that was separate from the plane impact that injured Bobby not wind from a elevator stopping or slowing down 15 floors above. This involuntary action of being thrown to the ground matches Phillip Morelli account of being thrown to the ground by an explosion in the sub-levels as well. Bobby's account describes two explosions, possibly one from the plane and certainly one in the subbasement. Bobby could also be one of the male caller's in the PA transcripts calling from a cell phone to report injuries to victims and/or damage to the structure.
Source: NY1 For You: Engineer Injured In WTC Attacks Still Needs Help With Surgery Costs
In Life In Limbo After Layoffs-Chicago Tribune

9. Kenny Johannemann-ABM Janitorial Services
a. Location: Awaiting the arrival of an elevator in the basement.
b. "The lift door exploded open. there was a man inside half burnt. His skin was hanging off.(Felipe David?) "I dragged him out of the lift and somebody (William Rodriguez?)helped me get him out for the building."
c. Reports no fireball exiting the elevator door when it opens or no fireball prior to the elevator arriving, and finally no fires remaining in or around the elevator.
Source: People Magazine, September 24th

10. William Rodriguez-WTC Janitor
a. Location: Office Sub-level 1
b. "When I heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated, the walls started cracking and it everything started shaking."
c. Was huddled togther with at least 14 other people in the office.
d. States Anthony Saltamachia, supervisor for the American Maintenance Co., was one of the people in the room who stands ready to verify his story.
e. "Seconds after the first massive explosion below in the basement still rattled the floor, I hear another explosion from way above," said Rodriguez.
f. "Although I was unaware at the time, this was the airplane hitting the tower, it occurred moments after the first explosion."
g. He encounters Felipe David.
h. Felipe David stormed into the basement office with severe burns on his face and arms, screaming for help and yelling "explosion! explosion! explosion!"
i. "He (David)was burned terribly," said Rodriguez. "The skin was hanging off his hands and arms."
j. "I don't care what the government says, what scientists say. I saw a man burned terribly from a fire that was caused from an explosion below."
k. "I know there were explosives placed below the trade center. I helped a man to safety who is living proof, living proof the government story is a lie and a cover-up."

Brief Summary: William hears an explosion below him, the floor vibrates, walls
crack, and everything starts to shake. He encounters a victim who suffered the effects of the explosion, and eventually concludes bombs were placed in the basement. Originally he testified to NIST that it was a fireball in 50 freight elevator. However, reading his account, he could not have witnessed a fireball from his location, which leads me to believe he was told what happened and then repeated this to NIST. After learning more information, William changed his mind and concluded an explosion in the basement caused the destruction. William's has received substantial personal attacks from supporters of the official story for changing his story despite being honored as a hero by President Bush. One has to wonder, why those who accept the offical story as gospel would choose to attack this man's character, considering all of the testimony that collaborates the story he tells today regarding the detonation of an explosive device in the basement of World Trade Center: North Tower.
Source: WTC Basement Blast and Injured Victim Blows Official 9/11 Story Sky High

11. Edward McCabe-Engineer
a. Location: refergeration plant sub level 4.
b. He feels a shifting of the building
c. 30 seconds later,I froze right where I stood and listened....nothing.. about 30 seconds past and to my left about 30 feet from me was a stairway leading up to a door. this door explodes off its hinges and white smoke came into the plant.
Seconds later through the smoke came people who worked beyond that door for the construction company.they were all secrataries,they walked like zombies not speaking I can smell their burnt flesh.one was bleeding pretty bad and i started to walk her to path train station accross the plant. 1 woman seemed unharmed and i asked her what happened..she told me a bomb blew up their offices.when we got to the PATH platform i layed the woman down ,she thanked me,and i returned to the blown door to see if i could find anyone else.Sure enough there were more,.the smoke was being sucked up the shaft now and i can see there were no longer any walls just rubble.1 woman was under her desk refusing to come out.after a little coaxing she came and at this point a few of my colleuges,were sifting through the rubble,trying to find anybody .we did about 3 trips .everyone was out.i returned to the plant and called for ems on the radio(walky talky),I couldn't get through there was chaos on the radio.I switched on the am radio we had in the plant to the all news station and heard "ONCE AGAIN A PLANE HAS HIT THE86FLOOR OF ONE WORLD TRADE CENTER"i started running towards the area where we had brought the injured when i see about 9 fire men running my way.they approached me an asked "where are we getting all these people from." I told them over there pointing about 25yards away to the staircase with the blown door.they asked me to show them exactly where and I told them "there is no one left lets get the hell outta here",they told me to calm down and lead them to the offices beyond the blown door.I said "ok lets do this " so we start running for the stairs as we started to ascend the lights went out just the little exit signs over the doors were illuminated.I started to panic .(I found out later on the lights were lost when the second plane hit.)not one of the firemen had a freakin flashlight ,I couldn't believe it ,i guess in all this chaos they forgot them.the firemen in charge said to me,"wait here we will be right back",and just like that they all ran back the way they came .Not 1 of them stayed behind.I stood there at the bottom of those stairs scared ******** ,in the dark ,listening to the eery sound of the smoke sucking up that elevator shaft.Maybe a minute passed when I said to myself "what am I a ****in' idiot."and proceeded to run past the area where we brought the injured in path station,EMS was taking care of them and for that i was thankfull.I noticed the owner of the deli/restaurant bar was locking himself in . I guess to guard from looters.the escalator leading up to the concourse level was (believe it or not )running.AT this point i stopped and rode the escalator up. Catching my breath,when i reached the top I noticed everyone was evacuating in a calm and orderly fashion.I started to feel a little more at ease.i ran up another out of order escalator to the plaza level and started running towards daylight i noticed debris coming down.as I got closer I realized there were people hitting the ground exploding on impact among office furniture and luggage i was sickened by the sight.I waited for a lull and ran for it out the doors to the open air it was chaos fire engines all over people screaming.i looked up and saw both towers on fire,i couldn't believe my eyes .people were jumping ,I saw a couple holding hands freefalling from at least the 90 -95th floors.I ran to broadway and watched from there i still was in shock,when over the walky talky my supervisor makes a general announcement "all WTC mechanical personnel rally at the pump station".I start running back towards the pump station which is up the block accross from 1 wtc.as i pass 1wtc people are still hitting the ground ,i'll never forget the sound. when i arrive everyones hugging and happy to see each other .i lean up against the wall and slide down on my ass and look up at the towers burning people still jumping.
i will finish this some other time i'm emotionally drained just writing this..God Bless.
Edward McCabe, Story #936, The September 11 Digital Archive, 25 July 2002

Brief Summary: Astute readers of the above commentary who examine the source, will notice I left out the description of the fireball and jet fuel in the above account. I did this not due to dishonesty, but for the simple fact Edward was TOLD this to him by somebody after the event. In fact he states, "I later on found out the reason there was an explosion was the jet fuel filled the elevator shaft and seconds later a spark triggered an explosion." Not his words mind you, but someone who TOLD him the excuse that he repeats in his account. Not only that he doesn't report a fireball or secondary fires in the doorway but does describe destroyed walls and rubble. So he was not a witness to a fireball or jetfuel that was ignited by a spark. Second he describes white smoke exiting a stairwell, not black smoke as produced by burning jet fuel. Another female victim believes a bomb blew up in their office, resulting in the injury of secretaries. He mentions that the lights went out , but again learns later it was the second impact.
He also mentions no smoke or fire when he arrives on the Concourse level where people are exiting in an orderly fashion.

The one thing I find very disturbing is his encounter with 9 firemen in sublevel 4. Although we are unaware of the exact time Edward encounters them, we know it is shortly after the plane strike as announced by the radio according to his account. The firemen ask Edward where all of the people (secretaries) are coming from and he directs them to the offices beyond the destroyed doorway. All of the sudden the lights go out, leaving only the exit signs illuminated. None of the firemen have a flashlight and the firemen in charge tells Edward to "wait here, we'll be right back". All 9 firemen run off in the opposite direction from which they came as Ed is suprised and upset that not one fireman remained behind or came back for him.

My question is, how did 9 firemen get to sublevel 4 so quickly after the impact and what were they doing down there? Why did they tell Edward to "wait right here, we'll be right back" but do not return? Many people who support the official story would like to know how explosive devices were planted in the buildling basement? Was it via a delivery truck? Or were explosives placed or prepared to detonate by the terrorists ? Could terrorists have posed as firefightes in order to help facilitate the detonation of a device in the World Trade Center: North Tower basement? Could they have been the people who kept telling survivors of the basement blast that it was a fireball from jet fuel that caused the explosion, the damage, and the injuries, and not an explosive device?
If anyone could point me to a source, preferabbly from PA or Firefighter transcripts to confirm the presence of 9 firemen in the basement level 4 shortly after impact, I would greatly appreciate it and it would put my mind to ease. .


B. Police, Port Authority, etc. Transcripts In Response To An Event In The Sublevels of WTC: North Tower

The following accounts are from Port Authority transcripts that revolve around an event that took place in the basement of WTC: North Tower. Many of the callers are unidentified but could possibly be matched to some of the eyewitnesses above.

1. Unidentified Male Caller to Port Authority Police Department-
a. Location-Turner Construction right outside the 50 car, across the hall from 50 car.
b. “Officer, help.” We’re down on the B-4 level. There’s been a big explosion. We’ve got water
lines open. There seems to be smoke and steam in the area.”
c. The caller goes on to report “smoke but unsure whether it is from fire or dust” with “broken water lines and water all over”.
Brief Summary: Do you see something missing in this call to the police? If you said burning jet fuel, a fireball, or secondary fires from the fireball you would be correct.
Port Authority Transcript
Source: http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa-transcript036.pdf

2. Male Caller on Portable Device call to PAPD Officer Brady
a. Location- B-1 level
b. “We had a ….minor explosion (inaudible). Or a major explosion.
Brief Summary: Again, the fireball and expected secondary fires are missing.
Port Authority Transcript
Source: http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa-transcript010.pdf

3. Male Caller on Radio Channel W to Police I (it appears to be the same caller as above but recorded on a different channel)
a. Location-B-1 level, One World Trade Center
b. “(inaudible) B-1, level , One World Trade Center. It’s (inaudible),we had a minor explosion or a major explosion, something happened down here.”
Brief Summary: Another call and no mention of a fireball or secondary fire or burning fuel.
Port Authority Transcript
Source: http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa-transcript047.pdf

4. Male Caller Recorded on Radio Channel X-Security
a. Location-B-2 between red and yellow lots
b. ASAP, six-three, be advised, I have to ABM workers down here on B2 ah...between the red and yellow lots. Be advised I’ve got two ABM workers hurt.”
c. “I need an ER ESP down here ASAP!”
d. After being asked where he needs assistance, the caller responds.
e. "B2 between the red lot and the yellow lot, the walkway where the ABM office is."
Brief Summary: This could be Bobby Hall's call. He was in the area described and matches his acccount of helping two individuals. He also used someone's cell phone to make a call after his experience. The person's cell phone he used was crushed by debris outside of the tower shortly after Bobby borrowed it. Yet again, we have another call to the police that reports injury but no fire, no fireball, and no burning jet fuel.
Port Authority Transcript
Source: http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa-transcript048.pdf

5. PAPD Officer 33 responding to a Cave in at B-4
a. Location: Traveling to sub-level B-4, WTC North Tower
b. “Myself and (inaudible) to the Trade Center responding with scott packs to the B-4 Level. There’s a report of a cave-in and people trapped.”
c. PAPD Desk-“Roger, three three and eight-two Houston, World Trade responding B-4 level on a report of a cave in.
d. Officer 33- “There’s also been a cave-in at the platform of the PATH plaza…there’s a live electrical, and water running. Turn off the power in that area.
e. PAPD Desk reports to other responders-“Three-three is reporting that
there is a cave in, B-4 level, at the World Trade Center, copy? A possibility of people trapped."
Brief Summary: Again not only is a fire not reported, not only that no fireball is described. Officer 33 is responding to the damage that occured after the explosive device was detonated. This account is perhaps highlights largest amount of structural damage in the sub-levels recorded by the police. What is described is actually two cave-ins, one at B-4 level and one at the PATH plaza platform. You should be asking yourself, how NIST concluded an unreported fireball caused a cave in at B-4 and the PATH subway plaza platform.
Port Authority Transcript
Source: www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa-transcript010.pdf

6. Male caller to 310B Fire Command Radio Channel X-Security
a. Location-Near or on the Path Train
b. “Please let me get through! The PATH train, something is going on at the PATH train! Can you ask somebody to make an announcement, 310B, people are running out of the PATH train, copy!
c. Male-“Ten-four. (Inaudible) to 63.” Female-“Yes.
d. Male-“See if you can make an announcement with PAPD with regards to people panicking in the PATH trains! Female-“That’s people by the PATH train, copy.”
Brief Summary: The device that caused the explosion apparently caused the cave in/partial collapse at B-4 basement level and the PATH Plaza platform, even to the point of causing people to panic and get off the train, resulting in the phone calls from PAPD 33 and a call to 310B Fire command. This call like the others mentions no fireball and no secondary fires.
Port Authority Transcript
Source: http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa-transcript048.pdf

7. Marvin Bush, Brother of George W. Bush
a. Location: subway on the way to a meeting
b. Subway train comes to a stop, no idea what happened.
c. They were evacuated, single-file, onto a platform, and then out of the subway. No mention
of where they were evacuated.
d. Marvin said there were smoke and debris everywhere and was told to get out of there.
Brief Summary: Subway comes to a halt and is evacuated. It is unclear if the smoke and debris is in the subway or outside the subway. I'm lead to believe it was in the subway. The smoke he refers to if from the North Tower impact zone would not be everywhere but 100 plus stories high. The debris could have come from the impact but we are not told where Marvin exited the subway. However, the above PA transcript does report a cave-in which would be consistent with debris in the subway. I included this information as it supports the calls about the PATH trains that were disrupted as a result of the detonation of the explosive device. It is highly unlikely that Marvin exited on the PATH Plaza Platfrom that suffered the cave-in.
Source: Reflections: Life After The Whitehouse, by Barbara Bush

Many of the communication transcripts above follow a the same pattern of an explosion heard or reported, human injury is then reported, and finally the damage to the structure is described. The most significant damage to the structure being a cave-in at B-4 that caused the people on the PATH trains to panic and flee. This follows the logical squence that points to the sound of explosions coming from an explosive device, not a fireball as the NIST has concluded.

It is impossible for the excuse the official story holds that a jet fuel based fire ball traveled down the elevator shaft in the North Tower, into the subbasement levels, particularly sublevel 4 and the PATH Plaza, and caused the human injuries and structural damage witnessed and reported to the police. The analysis below proves without doubt that a fuel air explosive could not have been the cause of the events described above. This leads to one conclusion: terrorists used an explosive device in the sublevels of WTC: North Tower.

Aside from actually testing for explosive residue which no Federal Agency did, the above accounts and the fireball analysis below conclusively prove that an explosive device was used in the sublevel structure of World Trade Center, North Tower.

What the device was, how it was placed, and its purpose is speculation. Was it used to destroy the elevators thereby increasing the difficulty in rescue? Could it have been a “divide and conquer” tactic used to hamper firefighter’s responses by sending teams to the basements and to the point of impact? Or was it used to weaken and damage the strongest portion of the building, the 47 core columns that were anchored to the ground? As any demolition expert will tell you, if you want to assist in bringing a building down, you have to weaken or destroy its base. Because of the location of this explosive device, an investigation into the security measures, personel, and delievery schedules should have been a fundamental part of the FBI's investigation. At this point and time, I am unaware if the FBI examined this event in the basement of the North Tower.

The reader is left to hypothesis why FEMA, NIST, and the 9/11 Commission choose to ignore the evidence of an explosive device used in the basement levels of the North Tower and decided to issue forth the excuse of a fireball.

The following analysis points out in detail why a fireball from jet fuel is an impossible excuse for the testimony above.

-----
WTC1’s Main Freight Shaft Was
Not Rocked to the Basement by an FAE!
By Bsbray of studyof911.com
First, let us establish that there was only one elevator per building with access from the basement levels all the way up to the 108th floor.
From NIST NCSTAR 1-1, Design, Construction, and Maintenance of Structural and Life Safety Systems, page xxxvii (page 39 of the PDF file):


Elevators were the primary mode of routine ingress and egress from the towers for tens of thousands of people daily. In order to minimize the total floor space needed for elevators, each tower was divided vertically into three zones by skylobbies, which served to distribute passengers among express and local elevators. In this way, the local elevators within a zone were placed on top of one another within a common shaft. Local elevators serving the lower portion of a zone were terminated to return to the space occupied by those shafts to leasable tenant space. People transferred from express elevators to local elevators at the skylobbies which were located on the 44th and 78th floors in both towers. Each tower had 99 passenger and 7 freight elevators, all located within the core of the building.
From the same document, page xlviii (page 50 of the PDF file):

There were 99 passenger elevators in each tower, arranged in three vertical zones to move occupants in stages to skylobbies on the 44th and 78th floors. These were arranged as express (generally larger cars that moved at higher speeds) and local elevators in an innovative system first introduced in WTC 1 and WTC 2. There were 8 express elevators from the concourse to the 44th floor and 10 express elevators from the concourse to the 78th floor as well as 24 local elevators per zone, which served groups of floors in those zones. There were seven freight elevators, only one of which served all floors. All elevators had been upgraded to incorporate firefighter emergency operation per American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) A17.1 and Local Law 5 (1973).

From an online reproduction of a 1967 Otis Bulletin article from the Otis Elevator Company, the company contracted to install all of the WTC Tower elevators in 1967:
In addition to normal freight service one freight elevator in each of the towers will serve a total of 112 stops from the fifth basement to the 108th floor. It will rise 1,387 feet (422.8 meters) – 400 feet (122 meters) more than the former record rise in the Empire State Building.

And finally, from NIST NCSTAR 1-7, Occupant Behavior, Egress, and Emergency Communications, page 34 (page 72 of the PDF file):
In addition to the passenger elevators, there were seven freight elevators in each tower; most served a particular zone, while Car 50 served every floor.
So we conclude from all of the above only one elevator per building had access from the fifth basement level to the 108th floor, and this was Car 50. These would be the “main” freight elevators in each tower.

USA Today published an article by Gregg Zoroya titled “The Griffiths”, the online version of which was last updated September 10th, 2002, on two survivors of the WTC disaster in New York. The two survivors were husband and wife, and were also both elevator operators for the North Tower, WTC1, the same building relevant in the testimonies of Lt. Walsh, Phillip Morelli, William Rodriguez, and Mike Pecoraro.

The husband, Arturo Griffith, operated WTC1 elevator Car 50, which USA Today further describes as, “the big freight car going from the six-level basement to the 108th floor.”
[The Griffiths] were both operating elevators in the north tower on Sept. 11. Arturo was running 50A, the big freight car going from the six-level basement to the 108th floor. When American Airlines Flight 11 struck at 8:46 a.m., Arturo and a co-worker were heading from the second-level basement to the 49th floor. Like his wife, who had just closed the doors on a passenger elevator leaving the 78th floor, Arturo heard a sudden whistling sound and the impact. Cables were severed and Arturo's car plunged into free fall.
"The only thing I remember saying was 'Oh, God, Oh, God, I'm going to die,' " he says, recalling how he tried to protect his head as the car plummeted.
The emergency brakes caught after 15 or 16 floors. The imploding elevator door crushed Arturo's right knee and broke the tibia below it. His passenger escaped injury.
There is a one-story discrepancy of this elevator’s range with Otis Elevator Company’s 1967 Bulletin article (six vs. five accessible basement levels), but it remains clear that the main freight elevator is indeed the elevator relevant to this article.
Though the door to Mr. Griffith’s elevator was knocked out when the safety brakes caught the free-falling elevator, there was no fuel-air explosion (FAE) down this elevator shaft.

Remember that such an event is hypothesized to have not only traveled hundreds of feet down this elevator shaft into the basement, but to have also caused major destruction in the basement levels of WTC1 as reported by Rodriguez, Pecoraro, Morelli, and their co-workers, including a destroyed basement machine shop, and blown-out, lower-level elevators accessing the lobby.

This contrasts with the account of Mr. Griffith’s wife, Carmen:
A full elevator had just left the 78th floor, and Carmen was about to carry up six or seven stragglers. The plane struck as the doors of her elevator closed. They could hear debris smash into the top of the car; then the elevator cracked open, and flames poured in. Carmen jammed her fingers between the closed doors, pulled them partly open and held them as passengers clambered over and under her 5-foot-6 frame to escape.
Before finally throwing herself out onto the lobby floor, she glanced back to be sure the elevator was empty. That was when fire scorched her face with second- and third-degree burns, and literally welded her hooped right earring to her neck. Her hands were badly burned.
Note that Mrs. Griffith was not on the elevator that had access to the basement levels. Also note that, though she was burned, there was not a blast characteristic of an explosion that would cause such destruction as what was witnessed in the WTC1 basements, or else Mrs. Griffith surely would not have survived.

Car 6
The following excerpt comes again from NIST NCSTAR 1-7, page 34 (page 72 of the PDF file).
In addition to the passenger elevators, there were seven freight elevators in each tower; most served a particular zone, while Car 50 served every floor.
• Car #5: B1-5, 6, 9-40, 44
• Car #6: B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107 (Dual-use express, see below)
[…]
There were two express elevators (#6 and #7) to Windows on the World (and related conference rooms and banquet facilities) in WTC 1 and two to the observation deck in WTC 2. There were five local elevators in each building: three that brought people from the subterranean levels to the lobby, one that ran between floors 106 and 110, and one that ran between floors 43 and 44, serving the cafeteria from the skylobby. All elevators had been upgraded to incorporate firefighter emergency operation requirements.
So we see that another elevator, Car 6, ran from the impacted floors of WTC1 to sublevel B1, but no further.

From page 122 of the same document (page 160 of the PDF file):
For an elevator’s cables to be cut and result in dropping the car to the bottom of the shaft, the cables would need to have been in the aircraft impact debris path, floors 93 through 98 in WTC 1 or floors 78 through 83 in WTC 2. Inspection of the elevator riser diagram and architectural floor plans for WTC 1 shows that the following elevators met these criteria: cars 81 through 86 (Bank B) and 87 through 92 (Bank C), local cars in Zone III; car 50, the freight elevator, and car 6, the Zone III shuttle. … Cars 6 and 50 could have fallen all the way to the pit in the sub-basement level, and car 50 in WTC 1 was reported to have done so.


Here, NIST states explicitly that elevator Car 6, along with Car 50, were the sole elevators of WTC1 with access to the basements from the impacted floors of WTC1. And as noted in the previous excerpt from NCSTAR 1-7, Car 6 only reached sublevel B1, the uppermost basement level, while explosions and other destructive events were observed on B1 as well as below B1, on B2 and possibly lower (see the above testimonies of Rodriguez and Pecoraro).

Conclusions:
All of the above information should bring us to the logical conclusion that a fuel-air explosion did not travel hundreds of feet down the main freight elevator shaft of WTC1, from the impacted floors to the basements, to cause structural damage to the basement floors and lobby. Car 50 was the only elevator with access from the impacted floors of WTC1 to the sublevels B2 and below, and its operator survived, having experienced no explosions or fireballs down the main freight shaft.
That such a fireball could have traveled down Car 6 has not specifically been ruled out by the above information, but it could not have extended beyond sublevel B1, whereas explosive events caused much destruction on lower floors.
Also, considering an FAE traveling down this shaft sufficient in strength to destroy a machine shop in the basement levels (as per Pecoraro’s testimony), even if this elevator had access to this floor, and cause elevators servicing the lowest floors to blow out (as per Walsh’s testimony), as well as additional structure damage in the basements including multiple cave-ins, it seems extremely unlikely, if not impossible, that the shaft itself, and neighboring floors all the way down would not be similarly destroyed by the massive overpressures accompanying this FAE down the building. Put simply, an FAE moving down an elevator shaft and causing severe damage in basement levels with massive force, could also be expected to destroy the shaft itself, especially since this shaft would be a very confined area, and its wall supposedly not reinforced by any concrete in the walls or etc.
The visible fuel-air explosions caused by the impacts visibly failed to destroy even the outer perimeter columns of the impacted floors, or to even remove their aluminum cladding, which was only fastened on and not solidly connected. Only the plane impacts themselves severed perimeter columns or caused such damage to the aluminum cladding. There is no evidence of great overpressures from the fireball itself if it traveled down the shafts either in the interior or exterior.
How, then, could a fireball that failed to remove this aluminum cladding in its immediate blast, travel down over a thousand feet of an unprotected elevator shaft and maintain sufficient overpressures to shatter concrete and steel fire doors, and cause a cave in at level B-4 and a cave in in the PATH plaza platform?
It has already been shown that the operator of elevator 50, the main freight, did not even experience a fireball, let alone life-threatening overpressures. This fits logically with the lack of exterior damage shown above.

More realistic explanations of the WTC1 basement events, including the use of secondary explosive devices, should be considered.

[10] This document is hosted by NIST at http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-1.pdf. Alternately, a cache of the document is hosted at Studyof911.com at http://www.studyof911.com/cached/NIST/NISTNCSTAR1-1.pdf.
This page can be found at http://www.otis.com/otis150/section/1,2344,ARC2495_CLI41_RES1_SEC5,00.html. A cache is hosted at Studyof911.com at http://www.studyof911.com/cached/1,2344,ARC2495_CLI41_RES1_SEC5,00.html.
This documented is hosted by NIST at http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-7.pdf. A cache of this document is hosted at Studyof911.com at http://www.studyof911.com/cached/NIST/NISTNCSTAR1-7.pdf.
This page can be found at http://www.usatoday.com/life/sept11/2002-09-10-surivivor-griffiths_x.htm. A cache is hosted at Studyof911.com at http://www.studyof911.com/cached/2002-09-10-surivivor-griffiths_x.htm.
Source: “bsbray” of Studyof911.com, Oct. 31, 2006. Last updated Feb. 17, 2007 (added photos and more technical data). Drawn heavily from the research of AboveTopSecret.com forum member “Valhall”, with additional helpful feedback from “ashm"

Rebuttals to the above account must be prepared to show how a fireball had enough explosive energy after impact to travel as far as down as sublevel 4 and cause the damage witnessed to the surroundings and the people and yet not kill Arturo Griffith and his wife in two seperate elevators. Arturo was in elevator car 50 the only elevator that traveled the from the impact zone to the deepest part of the basement. His wife's elevator traveled to the impact zone down to Sub level B-1. She was terribly burned in her elevator but it was very near the impact zone. In all of his accounts, he does not mention being burned nor does he witness any fireball. I've found only one referennce to a fireball from Arturo but it is unsourced. If the reader has access to this source, the author would greatly appreciate it.

 

[JimBenArm]

Holy crap! Is this "post the longest thing you can find" day on the forum? Every other post seems to be 300 paragraphs long.

 

[CHF]

Swing, do you plan on asking any of those burn victims what they were burned by?

 

[Kent1]

Swing, do you plan on asking any of those burn victims what they were burned by?

There are also some good videos that would also help provide more detail to the discussion. I would recommend Trapped in the Towers: The Elevators of 911

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=77404

 

[Gravy]

Swing, before I proceed with my critique, I'm going to ask two things of you.

1) Please define "structural damage."

2) Please justify this statement of yours. I have twice called it a straw man. Do you know why?

"Keep in mind as you continue to read the accounts, that a single fireball from the impact zone almost 80 floors above traveled down a single elevator shaft, failed to kill or even burn the elevator operator, Arturo Griffith, but causes all of this damage in the various levels of the basement."

Oh, I will add this point while I'm here. You said,

c) Sees white smoke, and reports the smell of kerosene.
d) The smell he thought coming from perhaps a burning car in the parking garage above them.
e) Kerosene smell, not a kerosene fire. Burning Kerosene does not produce white smoke.

I sure wish you had read the other accounts of white smoke, or otherwise done your homework. Kerosene vapors are white.

You can easily tell if your stove is too hot to light with kerosene. If you put kerosene in the burner and it vaporizes making a lot of white smoke, then DON'T LIGHT IT! That white smoke is explosive. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me12.html

87th floor: Jet fuel on floor
It was pandemonium and total confusion for the occupants and visitors on the 87th floor. Bright white smoke was filling the hallways and liquid sparks were snaking along the floor – the jet fuel that had not exploded. http://brainmind.com/AmericaAttacked1.html


87th- 85th floors: heavy white smoke
Adam Mayblum: 87: We checked the halls. The smoke was thick and white and did not smell like I imagined smoke should smell. ...On the 85th floor a brave associate of mine and I headed back up to our office to drag out my partner who stayed behind. There was no air, just white smoke.
http://www.greatdreams.com/trade_day9.htm

EDIT: I forgot Ed McCabe's account of the white smoke:

B4 level: blast 30 seconds after building movement.

Edward McCabe, building engineer, describes blast at Turner Construction's Field Office in the tower core.

I was in the refrigeration plant in tower 1 sub basement 4. I was passing through when I felt a slight shifting of the building. I froze right where I stood and listened....nothing.. about 30 seconds past and to my left about 30 feet from me was a stairway leading up to a door. this door explodes off its hinges and white smoke came into the plant.

And in the south tower:

68th floor Charles Caraher
Then I headed for the other emergency exit. I reached another door and, as I started to touch the handle to check for heat, I realized I could just barely see through the window on the door. What I saw was a lot of debris and a thick white mist. http://911digitalarchive.org/stories/details/20315

61st floor
Linda Raisch-Lopez
I reached the 61st floor when there was a tremendous explosion. The building swayed back and forth. I can't even describe the terror I felt as I was thrown into the wall. I screamed and screamed and screamed. A man grabbed me and held me until I calmed down. The lights flickered, there was white smoke everywhere and I saw that a large piece of concrete had fallen on the stairway landing. ...I knew it would collapse. It was inevitable. The building was vibrating and I ran faster and faster. http://www.911digitalarchive.org/stories/details/9348

 

[Calcas]

Swing, do you plan on asking any of those burn victims what they were burned by?

Irrelevant.

(In my best Lyte Trip voice)

"They were mistaken."

Or even worse.

"They were fooled."