• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Does acupuncture work?

"I had really bad headaches so I started doing that Chinese thing with needles... whatsitcalled.... oh yeah heroin."
 
Ziggurat said:
Your last line doesn't actually follow from the previous ones. Even if acupuncture is purely a placebo, that doesn't make it pointless, because placebos do work for things like pain. Even if you know it's a placebo.
Click to expand...

Okay seriously people have got to stop trying to excuse every bit of medical quackery with "But... but the Placebo effect!"

We can't keep promoting a bunch of at best useless, at worst actively harmful practices because it causes the placebo effect in some people.

By this logic no medical procedure, no matter how outrageous, should ever be restricted in any way because there's the chance some person out there might placebo effect themselves into briefly feeling a little better.
 
JoeBentley said:
Okay seriously people have got to stop trying to excuse every bit of medical quackery with "But... but the Placebo effect!"
Click to expand...

Saying something works because it's a placebo is hardly an excuse for it. After all, if you're going to go the placebo route, might as well just go for the original: sugar pills.

By this logic no medical procedure, no matter how outrageous, should ever be restricted in any way because there's the chance some person out there might placebo effect themselves into briefly feeling a little better.
Click to expand...

That doesn't follow from anything I said either. Real, actual medical procedures that actually work are restricted in various and significant ways. Saying that "alternative" stuff sometimes works because of placebo effects isn't in any way an argument against any sort of regulation.
 
Ziggurat said:
Who said that this electric treatment was science-based?
Click to expand...

You by playing on the frayed-edge of the definitions of acupuncture.

"Anything connected to or having to do with the use of needles" is not necessarily acupuncture. Thus, the legitimate use of needles in medicine cannot be subsumed under the name acupuncture.

There are scientific reasons to suspect that it might work, but that doesn't mean it's scientifically based. Leaches sometimes work too, doesn't mean its early practitioners knew what the hell they were doing. Same with trepanning.
Click to expand...

The electricity in the muscle thing probably works. This does not extend to acupuncture.

It seems it is not widely known on this forum that homeopathy, reiki, chiropractic, naturopathy, etc. and, yes, acupuncture all inhabit the same dank alleyway of infamy.

Perhaps there is legitimate science supporting acupuncture. I'll not claim to be tooled-up with all the gen. I take my stance based on amateur following of these topics.

One such source is "Neurologica": http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/time-gets-it-wrong-on-acupuncture/

"Doing a meta-analysis and coming up with a single number of statistical significance does not really capture the entirety of the scientific research. We need to look at the relationship between rigor and effect size. Almost all treatments display a decline effect – the better the research, the smaller the effect. Some effects decline to a smaller but stable and replicable effect. Others decline to zero for the most rigorous studies.

Acupuncture effects decline to zero. Acupuncture effects are not real." — From that link.​
 
Donn said:
You by playing on the frayed-edge of the definitions of acupuncture.

"Anything connected to or having to do with the use of needles" is not necessarily acupuncture.
Click to expand...

Those are your words, not mine.
 
JoeBentley said:
"I had really bad headaches so I started doing that Chinese thing with needles... whatsitcalled.... oh yeah heroin."
Click to expand...

Thanks. Really! I needed that laugh, this topic was making me cranky.

People who have chronic, severe pain, often get desperate. Prior to having 4 spine surgeries, I was in denial and determined to avoid surgery. I was willing to try anything.

So, I decided to try acupuncture, but didn't mention it to my doctor. Long story, now short, a needle hit a nerve. I was worse off after the treatment then prior.

Of course, it doesn't prove anything. It wasn't a good experience, and when I told my doctor she was angry about my attempt. She said that no one with actual physical damage to the spine should receive acupuncture treatments.

Regardless of my experience, I am confident I would still have the same opinion about acupuncture I've held for a long time. I believe it is woo, but many people are open to suggestion and have the impression it has helped.
 
My neurologist did an EMG. Same needles. And they were hooked to an electric machine. But it didn't help the muscle pain. But gee, according to some, it was acupuncture.
 
theprestige said:
Have you ever gotten a tattoo? It's a rush.
Click to expand...

But according to the basic premise of acupuncture, it would depend on where you got needled.

A head rush would ony occur if you got the tatt on your lower chest, an arm tat would relieve constipation, ear lobe relieves tobacco addiction.... Except your liver. Any skin puncture any where is good for your liver. :D
 
casebro said:
But according to the basic premise of acupuncture, it would depend on where you got needled.

A head rush would ony occur if you got the tatt on your lower chest, an arm tat would relieve constipation, ear lobe relieves tobacco addiction.... Except your liver. Any skin puncture any where is good for your liver. :D
Click to expand...

Those people with full-body tattoos must be really healthy.
 
theprestige said:
Depends what you mean by "seriously".
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "seriously"?

theprestige said:
Also, are you seriously complaining that someone might not be taking acupuncture (and/or tatooing) seriously?
Click to expand...
No, I'm seriously complaining that someone might be seriously suggesting that tattooing might be in some way analogous to acupuncture, when the two procedures are completely different.

With acupuncture, you have multiple needles that go into certain points prescribed by a particular theory and stay there for a while before being removed. With tattooing, you have a single needle that very rapidly pierces and is removed over a surface that depends on the form of the artistic creation.

The only similarity between the two is that one or more needles is involved in piercing the skin. I could draw an equivalent analogy to phlebotomy, which would be equally as valid.
 
arthwollipot said:
What do you mean by "seriously"?

No, I'm seriously complaining that someone might be seriously suggesting that tattooing might be in some way analogous to acupuncture, when the two procedures are completely different.

With acupuncture, you have multiple needles that go into certain points prescribed by a particular theory and stay there for a while before being removed. With tattooing, you have a single needle that very rapidly pierces and is removed over a surface that depends on the form of the artistic creation.
Click to expand...

Huh. Apparently I should have asked what you meant by "comparing". Because it looks like you're seriously comparing the two, yourself.

Anyway, I'm not sure I see the point of taking acupuncture so seriously as to complain about the comparison.
 
theprestige said:
Huh. Apparently I should have asked what you meant by "comparing". Because it looks like you're seriously comparing the two, yourself.
Click to expand...
Okay, yeah you got me. Technically, I was drawing a comparison. Even more technically I was drawing a contrast.

theprestige said:
Anyway, I'm not sure I see the point of taking acupuncture so seriously as to complain about the comparison.
Click to expand...
Millions of people across the world take it seriously, including - apparently - some of the people posting in this thread. If you don't consider it to be worth discussing, why are you discussing it?
 
I tried acupuncture once. I ended up with 'pins and needles'.
 
Ziggurat said:
Quite likely, but we don't know that for certain. Nevertheless, that's how it was done in this case.



Suppose someone did decide to deliver vaccines through lots of tiny needles simultaneously. Suppose I called it acupuncture. What then? What terrible calamity would ensue?
Click to expand...

Some vaccinations are delivered with multiple needles but it is still called a vaccination. Just thought I'd throw that in here. :boxedin:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom