DC
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yeah, answering my question is pretty pathetic, isn't it?
Documentary about Israel/Palestine
- Thread starter DC
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yeah, answering my question is pretty pathetic, isn't it?
Earthborn
Terrestrial Intelligence
It will be difficult to find one that everybody would agree was not propagandistic. No documentary can show everything that happens everywhere, and a film maker has to make choices what is shown and what is not. If the film presents only one side, there will be people who complain that it doesn't present the other side. If it explains that there are good people on all sides, there will be people from all sides complaining that it doesn't present the other side as bad enough. If it explains that there are bad people on all sides, there will be people from all sides complaining about "moral equivalence". The only thing you can do to get a somewhat balanced view is watching or reading about as many different aspects and different viewpoints as you reasonably can.
Which can be watched here. One could say that it is honest in that it honestly presents a particular point of view (that of the pro-Israeli advocacy group HonestReporting.com) but it is certainly not neutral. By propagating a point of view, by presenting a particular choice of speakers, figures and graphics and images, and even emotive sound effects and music, I think it is quite propagandistic.
None of that invalidates the film of course. As any historian can tell you telling the history of anything in a linear medium means you can't tell everything that happened everywhere. One has to make choices what to tell and what to leave out, what is important to what one wants to tell and what isn't. Those choices are inevitably made from a viewpoint.
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I honestly believe that tv and video has a mesmerizing effect on the viewer. Our judgment is altered by strong images, music, a familiar voice, a cute face, a crying child, a bloody corpse.
Honest people can express their political views with the written word. Lazy people need to use Youtube videos.
Earthborn
Terrestrial Intelligence
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
It seems to be DC asked which documentaries to watch to form political views.
None of the mentioned documentaries appear on YouTube. I checked. Only one of them appears on Google Video. And while DC may be lazy for needing documentary films, Bigjelmapro is not lazy for answering a perfectly valid question.
Earthborn
Terrestrial Intelligence
So, you are completely off topic? 
bigjelmapro
Illuminator
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I know 1 of those posted has a free online version, but not all are available online, besides maybe the trailers.
As for Parky, once he understands that this thread centers around a widely disseminated internet documentary, the quicker he'll sideline himself and be irrelevant in yet another thread. Trolling won't help.
As for Parky, once he understands that this thread centers around a widely disseminated internet documentary, the quicker he'll sideline himself and be irrelevant in yet another thread. Trolling won't help.
bigjelmapro
Illuminator
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I suggest you see this one you're referring to and see the choice of speakers presenting opposing POV's, arguments, historical background, etc. This variety is extremely lacking in 'Occupation 101'.
Personally, I've never seen the Waldo of a neutral documentary. In regards to this documentary, I can see how its both pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian, in other words, pro-peace/two-state solution rather than leaning to the one side.
Earthborn
Terrestrial Intelligence
When I wrote that post I had seen it. I watched it immediately after finding it on Google Video.
I think the variety of viewpoints in Relentless also to be extremely lacking. I also think it is often unclear why some of the speakers are even there -- except that they have a view supportive of the narrative the film makers try to tell. Why the heck should I believe that guy from WorldNetDaily for example?
As I explained, such a thing is impossible. I do think however that the films I mentioned earlier in this thread are more neutral than either 'Occupation 101' or 'Relentless', mainly because they focus on much narrower aspects of the conflict and don't try to present a larger historical narrative. They tell their stories on a more human scale.
Yes, it tries to be. It also tries to convince the viewer that the Israeli government did everything it could for peace and the Palestinian Authority just didn't fulfil its promises. This documentary tries to present itself as pro-Palestinian people while trying to convince it is the Palestinian Authority that is the main source of their problems. I also think it is fairly obvious that while it doesn't try to be against the Palestinian people, its heart lies with the Israeli people and its government.
Oh, you mean like "Loose Change"?
oh..no..you must mean "Freedom to Fascism".
no...wait...maybe its "Zeitgeist".
um....could it be "9-11 Mysteries"?
let me know when I'm getting warm.
bigjelmapro
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Not expecting you to believe all those presented, but I simply wanted to convey that this documentary at least presented some opposing perspectives rather than a very narrow perspective as seen in Occupation 101
I'm supporting this position of yours that neutrality is hard to come by, especially, as you stated, when one broadly tries to tackle this conflict, its origins, and back story on the failures.
I saw criticism on both sides, ie the settlements issue, albeit not all the issues are presented (even though I personally think this issues are nominal compared to the failures of the PA)
But you do have to admit, its very difficult to ignore Arafat's and the PLO's overall undermining of the peace initiatives. Through these decades if you equally lay blame to the Israeli government and the PA, through the left, right and centrist Israeli governments during the period where Arafat reigned, at that point I would consider said documentary faulty in its need to equally blame both sides.