Documentary about Israel/Palestine

bigjelmapro said:
Seen the first version of Occupation 101 and the revisions (including this one). It doesn't present counter arguments (or a balance), but rather presses one side of the story without presenting how the conflict could've been averted many times from the mandate period to the present. It ignores the context of the conflicts and from the beginning tries to tie together conflict zones simply by drawing a weak correlation to violence and various uprisings.

The issue I have here is that the groups in power, be it the PLO or Hamas, from secular to Islamists, cannot be correlated to the conflict zones of the past, from Ireland to India to Algeria. PLO and Hamas have done everything in their power to prevent any sort of resolution to this conflict via compromise and concessions. The other conflict zones given as examples all have to do with a foreign power occupying said land as an extension of their empire (ie French and British colonization) and the resulting uprising and claim for independence. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict stems from previous wars between Israel and its Arab neighbors, whereby only two of the Arab countries involved in these wars have signed non-belligerency agreements, and the people displaced during the war (of which only one side has been actively resettled), namely the Palestinians, have not been actively resettled and used as a political and extorsion ploy for billions in humanitarian aid. The 'uprising'/'resistence' are a result of this lack of resolution to this conflict following the 3 major wars. So its a bit backwards to correlate this to other conflict zones.

So all in all, the lack of resolution to this conflict has stemmed, predominantly in my eyes, from a irresponsible PA government, one devoid of corruption on one end, and unmoving Islamist influence on the other, both of which are exploiting their own people for extorting aid from the international community.

This is just to start this off. I would advise though that one doesn't simply rely on an imbalanced sensationalist documentary that presents the story without the other without other material. I've read many of the counter arguments, even from the more extreme fringes of both the right and left. I advise you to do the same.
Click to expand...

Judging from this I was able to draw a completely accurate picture from the first four minutes of the movie.
It's almost but not quite as shocking as being told the sky is blue.

McHrozni
 
lets be honest folks,

pretty much EVERYTHING and ANYTHING that comes out of the Middle East or deals with the Middle East, is gonna be labeled as "propaganda" by someone.
 
McHrozni said:
Judging from this I was able to draw a completely accurate picture from the first four minutes of the movie.
It's almost but not quite as shocking as being told the sky is blue.

McHrozni
Click to expand...
You should see the rest. I think because they include Jews, albeit from a very tight side of the political spectrum (not that their political alignment really matters, but they do have a tendancy of making ludicrous claims and have sympathy for Islamist groups/leaders/motivations), that it gives the notion that this 'documentary' is well-balanced.

Read the link above. Paints an adequate picture. This 'documentary' is also shown on US campuses, which also suffer overall from being imbalanced in respect to their political alignment.
 
EDIT:

bigjelmapro, the text you linked to contains the same text Skeptic linked to earlier.
 
Last edited:
Tapio said:
Hey, WTF?

The texts bigjelmapro and Skeptic linked to are the same! Just published at different sites. Whatever is going on here, it sure doesn't add credibility to the text...
Click to expand...

what do they say......copying is the best form of flattery?
 
Tapio said:
EDIT:

bigjelmapro, the text you linked to contains the same text Skeptic linked to earlier.
Click to expand...
Oops. Different link, same material. Didn't notice it.

EDIT: Good material on the website as well, in addition to an expose on the many fabricated quote attributed to Israelis regarding this conflict...
 
Last edited:
McHrozni said:
Fine. Explain the beginning to me: it seemingly compares "Holy land" to Ireland, Algeria, India, America (?) and South Africa. What do those countries or areas have in common?
Click to expand...
Racist oppression. (If you're not aware of the racist aspects of English oppression in Ireland, study history until you are.)
 
DC said:
i have watched it, pretty impressive and sad.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. Truly heart braking.

I wonder if there ever was an independent evaluation on how much this kind of conduct helped to reduce the suicide bombings and/or threat of terrorism against Israel.
 
Tapio said:
Yes indeed. Truly heart braking.

I wonder if there ever was an independent evaluation on how much this kind of conduct helped to reduce the suicide bombings and/or threat of terrorism against Israel.
Click to expand...

well what else can you do to keep them out of your cities?
 
DC said:
well what else can you do to keep them out of your cities?
Click to expand...

That's not what I see as the problem. Checkpoints between countries are a must in areas like this (although it would seem clear that misconduct and outright violations of human rights will ensue when young, somewhat brainwashed people are put in control of them). Checkpoints between villages brought about by illegal settlements however...well, that's another story.

What I question is how much all of that serves the cause. I'm not saying it doesn't, would simply like to know if there has ever been an independent evaluation.
 
Here are a few that left a strong impression on me:

The Siege, about the siege of the Church of the Nativity in 2002, as seen from the viewpoint of the IDF.

No-17, about the filmmaker's attempts to identify an unidentified victim in a bus bombing.

The Inner Tour, about a group of Palestinians on a bus trip through Israel, visiting places from which they were displaced.
 
Thunder said:
lets be honest folks,

pretty much EVERYTHING and ANYTHING that comes out of the Middle East or deals with the Middle East, is gonna be labeled as "propaganda" by someone.
Click to expand...

So we shouldn't try to apply our intellect to tell good information from crap. Just pick your prejudice and go with it?
 
Gazpacho said:
Racist oppression. (If you're not aware of the racist aspects of English oppression in Ireland, study history until you are.)
Click to expand...

You mean the Palestinian demand for a Judenfrei Muslim-only land? The "Staged plan" -- to first get a ethnically pure Palestinian state and then use it as a terror base to get the rest? The denial of the holocaust? The declaration on children's TV that the goal when growing up is to kill Jews? Claiming the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are historically accurate? Meeting with Hitler and Himmler and begging them to speed up the killing of the Jews lest some of them emigrate to Palestine? Ethnically clearing to the last Jew any area they took over in any of the wars of annihilation against Israel? Having as their goal the destruction of the Jewish state? Making it illegal -- and punishable by death -- to sell land to Jews? Making Jews the only group of people immigration to their country is forbidden by law?

Yes, that's racist, all right.

But it's only aimed at Jews, so...
 
Last edited:
JediKnight2.01 said:
So we shouldn't try to apply our intellect to tell good information from crap. Just pick your prejudice and go with it?
Click to expand...

Yes. Israel evil. You're going to find stuff that says that, so you might as well believe it if you feel like it.
 
JediKnight2.01 said:
So we shouldn't try to apply our intellect to tell good information from crap. Just pick your prejudice and go with it?
Click to expand...
Apparently, in order to be a "documentary" a film must be completely sterile and uncontroversial. It can't try to communicate how the director feels about anything, and has to stop filming if a subject laughs or cries.

Let's get real. Any motion picture is going to contextualize. I can point out places in Machssomim where the scenes are subtly contextualized. I don't think it's done dishonestly, but it is done. Does this disqualify it as a documentary? No! Zeitgeist is a load of crap because it makes factually false claims about deities so forth, not because it starts off with a montage of gunshots.
 
bigjelmapro said:
Here's a concise response to the Occupation 101 documentary which addresses some of the specific issues with this documentary and how in all meanings of the word, propaganda, in presenting one side with misrepresenations, omissions, and in several cases, fabrications of historical events:

Anti-Israel Propaganda Shown to Arabic Students?
Click to expand...
Oh no, students had to watch something that doesn't present your preferred point of view!

To pull this off, a decade of unprecedented terrorism directed at Israelis in their homes, cafes, vehicles and religious festivals is made nearly invisible, severing the connection between Israeli measures and the Palestinian attacks that precipitated them.
Click to expand...
Did it occur to anyone that the filmmakers might genuinely believe that the "connection" is itself propaganda? or at least that causation goes the other way?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom