Do you think Churches should be taxed?

Surly it is unconstitutional for the Government to treat religious groups differently to other groups, for tax purposes?

-Gumboot
 
I think any church of which some official endorses a candidate or party or political position should immediately either be declared non-exempt or immediately become subject to campaign finance laws and the laws regarding other political organizations.
 
o.m.g.

never before have so many knee-jerk posts populated a single thread.

drkitten excluded. A voice of reason in an otherwise silent room.
 
I think preachers (and old white male GOP'ers) should be taxed on whether they use a bad hairpiece or not ....

Charlie (tax both churches and fund managers) Monoxide
 
I do not think *real* churches should be taxed (e.g. scientology should be taxed). The main reason I think this is so that the government cannot be accused of oppressing a religion. For example, the government couldn't use a high tax rate to artificially discriminate against or drive out a religious group. Certainly taxing churches is not inherently discriminatory or abusive, but it would add yet one more potential area of abuse.
 
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e-sabbath said:
The power to tax is the power to destroy. Thus, to support true freedom of religion, I support the freedom from taxation that churches share.
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Do you also oppose taxing any medium of communication (freedom of speech/press), any law firm or similar (due process) or any gun shop or producer (second ammendment)?
 
Whack01 said:
I do not think *real* churches should be taxed (e.g. scientology should be taxed). The main reason I think this is so that the government cannot be accused of oppressing a religion. For example, the government couldn't use a high tax rate to artificially discriminate against or drive out a religious group. Certainly taxing churches is not inherently discriminatory or abusive, but it would add yet one more potential area of abuse.
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What's a real church? The one that worships the real GOD?
 
Whack01 said:
I do not think *real* churches should be taxed (e.g. scientology should be taxed). The main reason I think this is so that the government cannot be accused of oppressing a religion. For example, the government couldn't use a high tax rate to artificially discriminate against or drive out a religious group. Certainly taxing churches is not inherently discriminatory or abusive, but it would add yet one more potential area of abuse.
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What you suggest would easily be corrupted into government endorsement for some religions and not others, which would have the exact discriminatory effect you describe.
 
Kerberos said:
Do you also oppose taxing any medium of communication (freedom of speech/press), any law firm or similar (due process) or any gun shop or producer (second ammendment)?
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A very good question. As a rule, I am against taxing any not-for-profit industries founded on these principles. For example, my local shooting club, or Groklaw.
 
"The divorce between church and state ought to be absolute. It ought to be absolute. It ought to be so absolute that no church property anywhere, in any state, or in any nation, should be exempt from taxation, for if you exempt the church property of any church organization, to that extent you impose tax upon the whole community." - President James A. Garfield, address to Congress

Vaguely relevant trivia: Garfield was, and is, the only member of the clergy to become President. When he did so, he gave up his position in his church, reputedly remarking: "I resign the highest office in the land to become President of the United States."
 
Rob Lister said:
o.m.g.

never before have so many knee-jerk posts populated a single thread.

drkitten excluded. A voice of reason in an otherwise silent room.
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Just out of curious, oh master of wisdom, does that mean you do not think churches should be taxed?
If so, we disagree intensely. But, I am curious why you assume this is knee-jerk. My decision/belief that churches should be taxed is of long duration beginning when I first learned in my teens that they weren't. They take up space, they use government services, they, in certain situations, cause unnecessary government expenditures, they should pay to play.
If not, then what do you reference in your post?
:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:confused::confused:
 
Whack01 said:
I do not think *real* churches should be taxed (e.g. scientology should be taxed). The main reason I think this is so that the government cannot be accused of oppressing a religion. For example, the government couldn't use a high tax rate to artificially discriminate against or drive out a religious group. Certainly taxing churches is not inherently discriminatory or abusive, but it would add yet one more potential area of abuse.
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For your scenario to work the government has to decide what does and does not constitute a religion. Do you see a problem with this?

-Gumboot
 
The government does decide what does and does not constitute a religion now. I think it definitely is a problem. That's why the government should give no special benefits to any churches or religious programs.
 
The power to tax is the power to destroy. Way back when, the power of government was forbidden from passing religious laws precisely because of the easy manner with which the passions of the population can be whipped up, to the detriment of minorities.

I think any attempts to re-join the two, especially by those who fancy themselves powers in government, under the illusion that it will go in a way harmful to religion, are foolhardy.
 
Whack01 said:
I do not think *real* churches should be taxed (e.g. scientology should be taxed). The main reason I think this is so that the government cannot be accused of oppressing a religion. For example, the government couldn't use a high tax rate to artificially discriminate against or drive out a religious group. Certainly taxing churches is not inherently discriminatory or abusive, but it would add yet one more potential area of abuse.
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Why is it oppressive if you don't treat any organization special? You are for giving special treatment to some churches, that is clearly discriminatory based on your ideas of what a real church is.
 
If a Church engages in politics, and many do, buy preaching from the pulpit "vote for this guy not that guy" then that church should pay taxes. If you want to dance the dance you have to chip in for the band.
 
e-sabbath said:
The power to tax is the power to destroy. Thus, to support true freedom of religion, I support the freedom from taxation that churches share.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

It appears some people here would rather see people's right to freedom of religion destroyed...

However, Scientology... Tax it to death. PLEASE.

Individuals that claim to be "priests" or "imams" or whatever while preaching to nobody in their basement? Tax them. Close those loopholes.
 
SpaceMonkeyZero said:
Agreed.

It appears some people here would rather see people's right to freedom of religion destroyed...

However, Scientology... Tax it to death. PLEASE.

Individuals that claim to be "priests" or "imams" or whatever while preaching to nobody in their basement? Tax them. Close those loopholes.
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And exactly how do you make this distinction without creating a very real system of discrimination against "non-authorized" sects and religions?

Again, I think the solution is to treat churches no differently than any other non-profit. If they want to use it as a tax shelter (see: Fred Phelps), they have to account for it to the IRS. If they want to use it to fleece people, let them make their fleecing public.
 
SpaceMonkeyZero said:
Agreed.

It appears some people here would rather see people's right to freedom of religion destroyed...

However, Scientology... Tax it to death. PLEASE.

Individuals that claim to be "priests" or "imams" or whatever while preaching to nobody in their basement? Tax them. Close those loopholes.
Click to expand...

So how do you tell a real church from a false one? What do you use to discriminate(in the sense of telling apart, needed for the different treatment you advocate) between real religion and fake ones?
 
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