Ed Do you like your cheese?

lionking said:
Okay. So some can engage in off topic conversations then. Good to know.
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I am not sure that it was off-topic, but if you think that it was then please do report the post(s) where you perceive that any derail started, and let the mod team decide.
 
Belz... said:
No, it could be the correct one, not the rational one. "Rational" and "childish" here are in opposition. As I said you're grasping at straws.
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Huh? That's just silly. It's the rational interpretation if that is the meaning that is strongly implied, even if it is childish.
 
angrysoba said:
Huh? That's just silly. It's the rational interpretation if that is the meaning that is strongly implied, even if it is childish.
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You're playing with words here. Not only is the meaning not implied in any way in this case, but as I've said the reasonable interpretation is that the brand name isn't an insult to the customer. You are deliberately changing up the meanings of these words in order to equivocate.
 
Belz... said:
You're playing with words here. Not only is the meaning not implied in any way in this case, but as I've said the reasonable interpretation is that the brand name isn't an insult to the customer.
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In the case of Coon Cheese, no, it is not so much a misinterpretation, from what I recall. It is the association of the word.

Now, lionking says it is not offensive in Australia, and Sydexlron disagrees. I can't speak for them personally, but what I can say is that the word for some people sounds extremely offensive.

Belz... said:
You are deliberately changing up the meanings of these words in order to equivocate.
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I'm not deliberately doing any of the underhanded things you are accusing me of. I am disagreeing with you. Instead of smearing me with bad motives, just argue the issues.
 
Belz... said:
In good part because nobody seems to understand the point of my hypothetical. And I didn't rule it out; I simply switched the root of the brand name in the hypothetical. I didn't suggest that no one with that surname existed, did I?



You keep saying that but that's your opinion. I'd like something a little more solid.



Ok let me help you out: RacCOON.



I dismissed it because it's irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that we generally prefer people acting rationally, and that the rational answer is usually better than the idiotic one. That you can find examples where the reverse is true does not change that. Exceptions do not invalidate a rule.
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In the UK we know what 'gasoline' is, and we know that Americans often shorten in to 'gas', but if you use the word 'gas' without very clear context we will assume you're talking about a gaseous substance, most likely the domestic fuel supply, if you smell gasoline and say "Can you smell gas?" and you'll almost certainly get the response "No, but I can smell petrol", not sarcasm but the immediate meaning of the word is different to us than to you. Same with 'coon' we don't use the word 'racoon' often enough for a shortened version to be high in our consciousness but almost everyone (over a certain age at least) will be aware of it as a racial slur.


ETA: NVM, I see the point has been accepted and the thread has moved on.
 
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Belz... said:
You're playing with words here. Not only is the meaning not implied in any way in this case, but as I've said the reasonable interpretation is that the brand name isn't an insult to the customer. You are deliberately changing up the meanings of these words in order to equivocate.
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As long as the customer isn't an american black..

Otherwise, it's probably funny..
 
Reminds me of the word Paki

Pretty much offensive everywhere apart from Aus. (Have had a few discussions with Aussies about it)

They all seemed convinced it is some kind of term of endearment
 
cullennz said:
Sorry but if you are denying a load of Aus cricket fans call the Pakistani team the Pakis you are living under a rock.
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You were wrong about Australian’s attitude towards the cheese’s name and you are wrong about this.

Racists hand waving away their racism by pretending that a derogatory name is used as an endearment is still racism.

Having worked in Pakistan, I can assure anyone who cares, that they do not regard this as an endearment.

Having lived in the UK and Australia, I can assure anyone who cares, that they do not use it as an endearment.
 
EHocking said:
You were wrong about Australian’s attitude towards the cheese’s name and you are wrong about this.

Racists hand waving away their racism by pretending that a derogatory name is used as an endearment is still racism.

Having worked in Pakistan, I can assure anyone who cares, that they do not regard this as an endearment.

Having lived in the UK and Australia, I can assure anyone who cares, that they do not use it as an endearment.
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Fair point.

I probably used the wrong wording.

A lot of aussie cricket fans I know consider it in-offensive.
 
cullennz said:
Reminds me of the word Paki

Pretty much offensive everywhere apart from Aus. (Have had a few discussions with Aussies about it)

They all seemed convinced it is some kind of term of endearment
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If you’d said America, you might have had a point.
 
zooterkin said:
If you’d said America, you might have had a point.
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I've never heard anyone in the US say the word "Paki".



(Exception. I know one type of knife, made by the Pakistani Steel Company, that I have heard called "Paki daggers".)


ETA: I think the most common term for Pakistani people used in the United States is "Indian". Most of us don't know the difference.
 
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Meadmaker said:
I've never heard anyone in the US say the word "Paki".



(Exception. I know one type of knife, made by the Pakistani Steel Company, that I have heard called "Paki daggers".)
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Yeah, I think that is what zooterkin meant when he said it was an offensive word anywhere except in the US.

Remember George W Bush at 0:50?



Meadmaker said:
ETA: I think the most common term for Pakistani people used in the United States is "Indian". Most of us don't know the difference.
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Phew! Somehow calling people from Pakistan Indians does not sound any better. :runaway
 
EHocking said:
You were wrong about Australian’s attitude towards the cheese’s name and you are wrong about this.

Racists hand waving away their racism by pretending that a derogatory name is used as an endearment is still racism.

Having worked in Pakistan, I can assure anyone who cares, that they do not regard this as an endearment.

Having lived in the UK and Australia, I can assure anyone who cares, that they do not use it as an endearment.
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The thing about Paki is that, in origin, it is exactly the same as, for example, Aussie.

The reason it is an term of abuse in the UK is that it was used as a term of abuse - and not just for people from Pakistan, of course, but anyone of South Asian origin. It just happened to be the word "paki" that got adopted for this. It could have been something else.

It's certainly believable that in another country that had never used it except "properly" as a short descriptor for people actually from Pakistan, and generally connected to sport, it would not have any such connotations.

In today's world, of course, borders are blurred and people are far more aware of what happens elsewhere, but why are people in Pakistan offended by it? This is a genuine question; I am not disputing that they are, but I am interested to see how it came about. Is it because they are aware of the UK usage, or is there another abusive usage where people actually apply it negatively to Pakistanis as a national group that they are aware of (and I am not)?
 
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