Do you know this tidbit about Lee Harvey Oswald?

[I Ratant]

47 years later, people still think that the individuals involved in the J.F.K. assassination are still relevant.

... with the exception of Caroline Kennedy, of course...

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Not to Neil Diamond... high creep factor there!

 

[I Ratant]

I didn't know about it until I read Voodoo Histories around this time last year.



Well, really nothing at all would convince those who are adamant there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. About the best it could do is convince people that Oswald was part of it, but it won't stop those who believe there was another shooter from saying that he had been recruited by the CIA/Cuban exiles/Cuban Communists/KGB/Lyndon Johnson/the Jews/The Masons/The Knights of Malta/the Illuminati/The Butchers/The Bakers/The Candlestickmakers etc... etc...

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Don't leave the Daughters of the American Revolution, with their anger against those immigrant newcomer upstart Irish Kennedys!
I believe one of the 78 verified shooters at Dealey Plaza was one of them.

 

[Meadmaker]

It's a lie! The evidence was totally fabricated! In fact, during the Warren Commission hearings, a photo of Walker's house that was allegedly found at the Oswalds' apartment was first shown to Marina Oswald and she knew nothing about it. When admitted into evidence later, the photograph had been altered by removing the license plate! A photo of Police Chief Curry accidentally included the doctored photograph. The photo was taken before the Warren Comission hearings and clearly shows the license plate is visible!

Oh..sorry. Slipped into CT mode for a moment. The part about the photo above is nearly true. It is the conspiracists' version of events. The photo in question was damaged, and the license plate was removed, presumably by Oswald himself. The photo of Chief Curry did include the photograph, but the reason it appears undamaged was a difficult to view camera angle. (And I might have gotten a few details wrong. It has been 20 years since I looked into it.)

So, yeah, I knew about it. However, I'm a bit more knowledgeable than most about the JFK conspiracy theories. They had a lot to do with my journey to skepticism in general. My dad was a very smart guy, and a conspiracy theorist. Growing up, I tended to believe what he said, and I read a couple of conspiracy books and believed them. (I remember "Six Seconds in Dallas".) One day in my college library I stumbled on the Warren Report and picked it up, looking to see what those rotten conspirators had tried to pass off on the American people and discovered, to my surprise, that it was quite reasonable, and that the conspiracy books hadn't even gotten its contents correct. It sort of led me to become a bit of an assassination buff, but on the anti-conspiracy side.

It also taught me that there is a difference between being smart and being right. After that, I tended to take my dad's beliefs with a bit larger grain of salt. I eventually came to see him as a loveable, intelligent, but somewhat kooky, fellow.

FWIW, Marina also knew about the Walker attempt. It was a big reason why she was very frightened after the assassination of JFK. She was afraid that she would be arrested or deported for knowing about the crime, and not going to the polce.

 

[I Ratant]

It's a lie! The evidence was totally fabricated! In fact, during the Warren Commission hearings, a photo of Walker's house that was allegedly found at the Oswalds' apartment was first shown to Marina Oswald and she knew nothing about it. When admitted into evidence later, the photograph had been altered by removing the license plate! A photo of Police Chief Curry accidentally included the doctored photograph. The photo was taken before the Warren Comission hearings and clearly shows the license plate is visible!

Oh..sorry. Slipped into CT mode for a moment. The part about the photo above is nearly true. It is the conspiracists' version of events. The photo in question was damaged, and the license plate was removed, presumably by Oswald himself. The photo of Chief Curry did include the photograph, but the reason it appears undamaged was a difficult to view camera angle. (And I might have gotten a few details wrong. It has been 20 years since I looked into it.)

So, yeah, I knew about it. However, I'm a bit more knowledgeable than most about the JFK conspiracy theories. They had a lot to do with my journey to skepticism in general. My dad was a very smart guy, and a conspiracy theorist. Growing up, I tended to believe what he said, and I read a couple of conspiracy books and believed them. (I remember "Six Seconds in Dallas".) One day in my college library I stumbled on the Warren Report and picked it up, looking to see what those rotten conspirators had tried to pass off on the American people and discovered, to my surprise, that it was quite reasonable, and that the conspiracy books hadn't even gotten its contents correct. It sort of led me to become a bit of an assassination buff, but on the anti-conspiracy side.

It also taught me that there is a difference between being smart and being right. After that, I tended to take my dad's beliefs with a bit larger grain of salt. I eventually came to see him as a loveable, intelligent, but somewhat kooky, fellow.

FWIW, Marina also knew about the Walker attempt. It was a big reason why she was very frightened after the assassination of JFK. She was afraid that she would be arrested or deported for knowing about the crime, and not going to the polce.

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The underlined stuff.... Same here. Reading some of the conspiracy novels, looking at what they said the WCR said, and reading the WCR and seeing what it really said.. made all the difference.
The professional CTwinkies are apparently aware of what they lie about, and feed on the lack of interest by their prey as to what is real and what isn't.
And talking to the pros, they're scam artists, or genuinely deluded.
Lots of animosity among them, competing for the few dollars to be taken from their prey.

 

[angrysoba]

So, yeah, I knew about it. However, I'm a bit more knowledgeable than most about the JFK conspiracy theories. They had a lot to do with my journey to skepticism in general. My dad was a very smart guy, and a conspiracy theorist. Growing up, I tended to believe what he said, and I read a couple of conspiracy books and believed them. (I remember "Six Seconds in Dallas".) One day in my college library I stumbled on the Warren Report and picked it up, looking to see what those rotten conspirators had tried to pass off on the American people and discovered, to my surprise, that it was quite reasonable, and that the conspiracy books hadn't even gotten its contents correct. It sort of led me to become a bit of an assassination buff, but on the anti-conspiracy side.

That's very interesting and reminds me a little of the 9/11 Truthers' attitude to the 9/11 Commission Report. So many things that are claimed to have been missing from the report turns out to be explicitly contradicted in black-and-white by the report itself.

I think that with some of these things it is a case of the more evidence that there is which damns Oswald, the more loose ends that will inevitably appear. Conspiracy theorists seem to believe that if they can find any bedrock of doubt then the whole "official story" will fall apart which is why, ironically, the more incontrovertible an "official story" is the more it will be doubted.

 

[I Ratant]

It's like creationists looking for the Cambrian rabbit.
That one thing destroys evolution, it has been said.
But there's so many things that all fit together for both LHOLN and evolution that the Holy Grail disproving either is a chimera.

 

[angrysoba]

It's like creationists looking for the Cambrian rabbit.
That one thing destroys evolution, it has been said.
But there's so many things that all fit together for both LHOLN and evolution that the Holy Grail disproving either is a chimera.

Well, would you believe I just watched the second half of Oliver Stone's JFK. There is a brilliantly proposterous scene in which Kevin Costner's Jim Garrison meets Donald Sutherland and is told all the secret stuff that is going on that led to JFK's assassination. It's almost a complete parody of a conspiracy theorist but I suppose that something like it must be true if the conspiracy theorists are right. I wondered who that was supposed to be but we are tantalizingly told the character's name is X!

Anyway, the courtroom scene. This, of course, is the most stirring part and the bit that really does make you outraged even if you think LHO acted alone, as I do. It's all wonderful rhetoric but he blows his own case by soaring off into a flight of fancy implicating Lyndon Johnson and the whole US government on really very slender evidence.

The Zapruder film, of course, completely contradicts the doctors who testify the back of JFK's head was blown out as we are "treated" to repeated gratuitous explosions of the front of Jack's head.

We also get a story about what LHO was doing at the Book Depository that doesn't even pass the merest application of common sense. According to Garrison, LHO had found out about a plot to kill Kennedy and had informed the authorities (who disposed of his hand-written letter). On the day of the visit by JFK, LHO who was pretty much obsessed with JFK and the politics around him, and even suspected an attempt on his life - according to Garrison - decided not to take any interest in JFK's passing motorcade and instead sat by himself drinking a Coke in the canteen.

Apparently he continued loafing around the book depository in a disinterested way even after the shots rang out. This guy who was so concerned about an attempt on JFK's life that he went to the cops to warn them then decided he'd not have to bother following this up and instead left the book depository oblivious to what was going on and then went to the movie theater (he obviously hadn't killed Tippit according to the movie) to hide without paying for a ticket and then punched out an arresting officer. And as he's being led away Jim Garrison opines, "He must have felt like Joseph K in a Kafka novel!"

Whaaaaaaaaat!?!?!?

 

[I Ratant]

I guffawed away in JFK when Costner was testing the shot sequence...
Punch the stop watch, then aim and shoot.. golly, takes much more time that way than starting the watch -at- the first shot, then timing the sequence.
Almost as if Stone was being disengenuous. Ya think?
The amount of just plain goofiness in the novels the CTwinkies have published, from Lane's "Zig-Zag bullet" and on is almost beyond belief, and yet it goes on and on and on..
I looked at the "bullet that hit the curb and bounced up to hit Tague on the cheek" idea. I used a real bullet and a real curb.
And found the FBI analysis that the alleged impact on the curb could not be proven to be a bullet, because 1) it requires a pretty direct hit by a powerful bullet to even ding a curb (.357 magnum from 3 feet), 2) bullets and wheel rim weights share similar chemical compositions, 3) curbs are hit by wheel rims much more frequently than by bullets (look at any length of curb), 4) a "fresh" impact ding by a lead bullet looks "fresh" for 5 months (abraded lead outside in the weather for 5 months), due to lead being pretty much inert and tarnishes very slowly.
What hit Tague was most likely a fragment of the head wound bullet which exited the head and impacted the chrome strip on the top of the windshield, disintegrating there, sending some fragments down in the front seat area, and one smallish piece flying over the windshield to hit Tague. Nothing substantial enough to mark the curb at all.
A .22 bullet from 3 feet just left a gray smear on the surface of the curb. A .337 lead bullet did the same. It required a .357 FMJ bullet from 3 feet to slightly gouge the surface of the curb, nothing at all like the gouge in the curb seen on Main Street and tested by the FBI.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Oswald couln't have shot either Walker or JFK because he never owned a rifle at all. The rifle found in the Book Depository was planted there, never fired, and later substituted in the police evidence lockup by the Mannlicher-Carcano used on the roof of the Dal-Tex building. Because the Book Depository building wasn't on Dealy Plaza, in fact it wasn't in Dallas at all. (I'll stop now)

From what I have read, the Book Depository wasn't actually built until after the JFK assassination. I'd like to hear the so called "skeptics" explain that!

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Not only that, but Dallas was in fact founded by the NWO with the sole purpose of framing Oswald 107 years later.

Shocking!!!

 

[CORed]

I think it is fairly common knowledge if you read anything about Oswald.

Although I am the first to admit that there is no compelling evidence of a conspiracy it is certainly understandable that people believe there was one.

An ex marine defects to the USSR at the height of the cold war; comes back to the US and ends up shooting the president,yells "I'm a patsy" to the press and then is shot by a (your choice of low level mobster, police groupie or mob hanger on) before he can be tried or even interrogated at length. How does that not make you look for a conspiracy?

It's not exactly far fetched to suspect greater forces might have been involved. Although I have never seen anything compelling to tie things together in any way.

I pretty much agree. I have no doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole shooter, but I have a tiny little bit of doubt that he (and Ruby) acted alone. As you say, there is no compelling evidence of a conspiracy, and if it hasn't come to light by now it probably never will. However, it seems that the CT's, as with 9/11, waste all their energy trying to cast doubt on the stuff that's not in doubt, and seem to favor the most bizarre, unlikely scenarios over the ones that are at least somewhat plausible.

 

[dropzone]

Do you know this tidbit about Lee Harvey Oswald?

He missed then, too.

D&R

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

He missed then, too.

D&R

If you buy into the official story.

M&M

 

[tim]

I had no idea about this and I'm old enough to remember the Kennedy assassination. I guess it didn't make any sort of a news story over here. Very interesting, though.

 

[chran]

I'm sorry to dredge this thread up again, but here's the relevant evidence from the Warren Commission Report:

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-4.html#prior

He left a note, and even told his wife about it after he came home. Psycho.

 

[Eddie Dane]

I knew from a BBC documentary. I forget the name, but it is the one with the computer animation reconstruction of the JFK assassination.

The documentary really shows how, with all the theories going round there is very little focus on LHO.

I'm willing to bet that more people know a bout the "three gunmen" and whatnot then they know about Oswald.

This one of the main reasons that people believe CT's. They are locked in with a limited data set. Stuff that goes against the CT isn't mentioned in the CT website or CT book.
This kept me on the fence about 911 for a couple of months until I came here and got additional information like that shot from the other side of building 7, that never appears in any Truther material. they simply disregard it. Before taht i'd been trying to make sense of it with the data the CT sites gave me.

Same with Oswald. He was a very tragic individual who tried to compensate for his failed life by trying to be some kind of revolutionary. Desperately trying to be special.

His first assassination attempt is the smoking gun, but I was also surprised by the rest of his life story.

-Was openly communist during his stint as a marine.
-Joined the Communist party.
-Defected to Russia.
-When the Russians tried to send him back he made a suicide attempt at the airport.
-Ruski's let him stay in order to avoid more drama and gave him a job at a factory.
-When he wasn't considered special by the Russians, he decided to go back to the US.
-When he got home he was disappointed that he wasn't greeted by reporters. nobody cared.
-After he shot JFK he was pursued by police. he killed a police officer with his revolver.

He was basically a sad, lonely attention whore with a history of violence.

 

[Almo]

Did not know until reading your post.

 

[tsig]

I didn't know that. My excuse is being 30.

Bet you won't make that mistake again.