Do you feel this infringes on your right to privacy?

[Sabrina]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35231454/ns/technology_and_science-washington_post/

Under an agreement that is still being finalized, the National Security Agency would help Google analyze a major corporate espionage attack that the firm said originated in China and targeted its computer networks, according to cybersecurity experts familiar with the matter. The objective is to better defend Google — and its users — from future attack.

Google and the NSA declined to comment on the partnership. But sources with knowledge of the arrangement, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the alliance is being designed to allow the two organizations to share critical information without violating Google's policies or laws that protect the privacy of Americans' online communications. The sources said the deal does not mean the NSA will be viewing users' searches or e-mail accounts or that Google will be sharing proprietary data.

I guess I'm curious to know if anyone who uses Gmail feels as though it's likely their privacy will be violated as a result of this agreement. Or are you comfortable with NSA partnering with Google to better protect your privacy, as is apparently stated in the agreement? I don't use the service myself; I've used Yahoo mail for quite some time, but I know if it were me in this position facing the possibility that the service I've used for a long time is being threatened by hackers, I'd sure as heck want them to use any means necessary to help protect my personal information and emails. Thoughts?

 

[Cainkane1]

I once had an excite e-mail account and some person in chat was able to see inside and read my e-mail. Nothing was worng with what was in the mail but I felt violated big time.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

Since the mid-1990's or thereabouts I have taken to assuming that nothing is private. Doesn't mean I think anyone has an interest in me in particular, just that anything done over an open communication medium is subject to recording, search and retrieval.

If I wanted something to be private, I'd say it in private.

 

[INRM]

I personally believe this infringes on my right to privacy, as well as everybody elses for that matter...

I think I'm going to stop using Google, and I recommend others do the same

Anybody here heard of AQAINT? It stands for AcQuiring Answers for INTelligence -- It was a plan developed by IARPA (IARPA is like a DARPA like outfit for the intelligence agencies in specific) and ARDA, based on the TIA program created in the 1980's, but basically on steroids. It basically uses data-mining and A.I. algorithms to sift through enormous amounts of data and basically organize it in such a manner that you could compile highly detailed dossiers on everybody to such a detail that you could even gain insights into their personality, thought process, etc. This system is being developed now for the NSA, and they do plan to make it operational.

To make it worse they are developing the system (AQAINT) to be able to interpret visual data gathered from cameras. DARPA has conceived of ideas of linking large amounts of cameras to a central computer (Do a wikipedia search for "Combat Zones that See" for example) to place large areas (even entire cities) under 24 hr surveillance. You couple these systems with AQAINT and you spell a complete dissolution of privacy.


BTW: What search engines do not keep permanent records on every search query, also does Wikipedia keep permanent search records on every search query?


INRM

 

[autumn1971]

I think that this is akin to cameras in stores and such. If the laws concerning search and seizure are followed, then the invasion is legal and minimal. Every time you enter a convenience store, you are being recorded, but the police can't just peruse the tapes until they find illegal activity - they must have a specific incident to look for, and nothing on the tapes outside of the relevant time frame is allowed to be viewed to check for other, hypothetical crimes.
The worry comes if the agencies in question have no respect for the Constitution of the US, or of the rule of law in general.

 

[Sabrina]

I personally believe this infringes on my right to privacy, as well as everybody elses for that matter...

I think I'm going to stop using Google, and I recommend others do the same

Anybody here heard of AQAINT? It stands for AcQuiring Answers for INTelligence -- It was a plan developed by IARPA (IARPA is like a DARPA like outfit for the intelligence agencies in specific) and ARDA, based on the TIA program created in the 1980's, but basically on steroids. It basically uses data-mining and A.I. algorithms to sift through enormous amounts of data and basically organize it in such a manner that you could compile highly detailed dossiers on everybody to such a detail that you could even gain insights into their personality, thought process, etc. This system is being developed now for the NSA, and they do plan to make it operational.

To make it worse they are developing the system (AQAINT) to be able to interpret visual data gathered from cameras. DARPA has conceived of ideas of linking large amounts of cameras to a central computer (Do a wikipedia search for "Combat Zones that See" for example) to place large areas (even entire cities) under 24 hr surveillance. You couple these systems with AQAINT and you spell a complete dissolution of privacy.


BTW: What search engines do not keep permanent records on every search query, also does Wikipedia keep permanent search records on every search query?


INRM

Do you have ANY idea how ridiculous that sounds?

Think about it logically; in order to maintain such complete dossiers on everyone in this country alone, you'd have to have servers with hundreds of thousands of PETABYTES of storage capacity, possibly more. Add in all the other people Google services (since they are worldwide after all) and the amount of storage space needed becomes nearly infinite. Plus, trying to maintain surveillance like you're talking with the cameras in the cities would require that tens of thousands of people be monitoring the darn things 24/7 in order to ensure that they wouldn't miss anything, since the likelihood of them trying to RECORD all that data would quickly become prohibitive again due to lack of storage space. It just isn't feasible, and I would bet you money that it won't happen in my lifetime, or even my grandchildren's lifetime, if ever. As for keeping records of every search query ever done; again, it's a storage issue. Google is a WORLDWIDE company that processes billions of searches on a daily basis; do you honestly think we have the storage capacity to store the results of quadrillions upon quadrillions of searches?

ETA: IANA IT person, but that would be my impression of the possibility of something like this happening.

 

[INRM]

Sabrina,

The amount of space is not anywhere near infinite. The NSA has enormous amounts of capacity for DATA. If Google can store all the data it stores, the NSA can store just as much if not more.

 

[Fnord]

I welcome the interest of our cloak-and-dagger overseers! Never have I felt safer or more priviledged to be an American! Yessereebob! No better place to be a law-abiding and faithful citizen of than the good-ole U. S. of A.!

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'm more comfy with Google and the NSA being in bed together than I am with China doing as it pleases online. From what I've read, they've been industrial- and regular- espionaging all over the place for years now, via the internet.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I saw a TV news show where it showed the US Government's National Security Agency stores every TV show and news report in the world on tape. They also have literally trillions of recorded phone calls stored as well and can call them up by keyword data base search ... I would assume they already store every email and any other data they can get their hands on.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I saw a TV news show where it showed the US Government's National Security Agency stores every TV show and news report in the world on tape.

Now I want to work for them. "Are you catching any spies?" "Not yet, I still have to get through the rest of this Brazilian soap opera, looking for clues. Oh look, the contessa is back from the dead, it must have been her twin who Roberto smothered on that terrace."

 

[dudalb]

Do you have ANY idea how ridiculous that sounds?

.

Consdiering it is INRM we are talking about, I hope that is an rhetorical question.

 

[Thunder]

i trust anything the NSA does and says.

 

[INRM]

Parky76,

i trust anything the NSA does and says.

You must be smoking some pretty potent stuff to actually believe that.

 

[GreNME]

Sabrina,

The amount of space is not anywhere near infinite. The NSA has enormous amounts of capacity for DATA. If Google can store all the data it stores, the NSA can store just as much if not more.

Do you think the NSA is made up of wizards or something? Seriously, your assessments of what the NSA does and doesn't have, what it can and cannot do, is downright fantasy.

The NSA isn't doing this to overshadow Google's resources and take its data. The NSA simply isn't capable of doing such a thing. If anything, what the NSA hopes to get out of this is some pointers on how to crunch more information better. One of the biggest challenges that the NSA has had since 9/11 is that the government has been placing more and more demand on them without assigning proportionately significant resources to actually accomplish their work. Most intelligence agencies have had to do more with proportionately less-- it's actually one of the things that frustrated me about a good deal of Bush administration policies on intelligence (particularly domestic intelligence). While there are lots of very talented individuals at the NSA, there is even more bureaucracy there that slows progress down. Deals like this are one of the ways the NSA can incorporate some innovation while also doing what they're good at: securing information and using their expertise on information security.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I am perfectly happy with it. And I use Gmail, Chrome, and various other Google services.

I am not a Chinese hacker, so I am protected by the laws and regulations on the books. And I don't fear that an NSA agent is going to read my Borders Rewards updates in the first place.

 

[Mark6]

1. There is no such thing as privacy any more. Get used to it.

2. If you think NSA is interested in following you personally, you have way too high opinion of yourself.

 

[r0ast_p0tat0es]

1. There is no such thing as privacy any more. Get used to it.

There's as much as there ever has been.

It used to be that you couldn't post sensitive information on the internet... Because there wasn't one. Now you simply shouldn't.

2. If you think NSA is interested in following you personally, you have way too high opinion of yourself.

Yes, yes, and I'm sure a Jew was saying a similar thing to his friend in Munich in the late twenties. Etc etc...

I live in a country where until very recently, the government did take a very intimate interest in what people were reading and saying to each other. Trust me, it can happen. Just because they choose not to now doesn't mean they won't change their minds.

 

[bigred]

I'm as cynical and untrusting of gov't as anyone, but it seems a few of you have read 1984 one too many times.

Also I guess I missed something in the OP - where's the part about my privacy being invaded?

This is all much ado about nothing IMO.

 

[Sabrina]

I'm as cynical and untrusting of gov't as anyone, but it seems a few of you have read 1984 one too many times.

Also I guess I missed something in the OP - where's the part about my privacy being invaded?

This is all much ado about nothing IMO.

That would be in the article itself; someone who apparently wrote a history of NSA stated that he was concerned it would violate people's privacy to allow this. I've never heard of him personally, so I don't know how truthful he'd be.