Do you fake pray?

[jimmygun]

I stand when they stand, I sit when they sit. I do not bow my head, I take the time to check out the good looking women in the church without worrying about being castigated for staring.

I have caught the unfriendly eye of the priest when I was supposed to be head down and I just give him a smile and a nod of hello. He knows I am an atheist but so far has said nothing to me to my face. I like to think that it is a matter of respect for my views that he says nothing but I suspect he doesn't have the orbs to do it.

One time, while celebrating the 40th anniversary of a couple I know (held in the church basement) a grace was offered before eating. My friends mother, (a devout Baptist) who was sitting at a table in front of me with her arms folded in prayer and her head down low, peeked at me under her arm. I smiled and nodded but it was all I could do to keep from bursting out in laughter! It was as if she figured she could keep god from seeing her look during prayer by hiding it under her arm like a kid in school!

Man, too funny! Best time I have ever had in church!

 

[KelvinG]

As many others have said, I just sit there quietly and don't say "amen" at the end. It doesn't happen very often, actually, but when it does, nobody says anything about it.



I agree, but I live in Canada, where the words go "God keep our land, glorious and free." I do care about Canada being kept glorious and free, I just don't think we should be asking a mythical being to be responsible. So I always sing "Let's keep our land..."

Either nobody has noticed yet, or nobody cares.

Our constitution also starts with these wonderful words:

Whereas Canada is founded upon the principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law

 

[arthwollipot]

Like other posters, I maintain respectful silence and do not bother anyone. I went to a funeral a little while ago which had a strong Anglican bent. The interesting thing is that the deceaced's daughter is a neo-pagan. I don't think she "fake prayed" either.

 

[Quinn]

Count me in as another non-faker who instead just stands there politely, waiting for it to be over and entertaining other thoughts (often involving how some of those around me would look while praying naked).

Unless, of course, you're talking about the prayers at the church where I play piano, in which case I simply continue clowning around and making blasphemous jokes with my fellow musicians in the choir loft, just like we do throughout the rest of the service. However, we do sometimes join in the responsorial thingie, although rather than "Thanks be to god" or whatever, our response is always something like "This is bullsh!t!"

 

[TragicMonkey]

When it happens at dinner, you can seize the opportunity to plan strategy. I'm not saying go ahead and put food on your plate. But if you want first servings of a particular dish, you might be able to unobtrusively edge it closer to you and put a few obstacle dishes between your target and your nearest rival. Scoot something nice closer to you, and scoot something nasty further away.

If the devotion goes on too long, you can get revenge by shifting someone's glass so they're bound to knock it over when they unfold their hands and put their head up.

For the less mean, but more surreally-inclined, you can take the quiet time to put food on other people's plates without them noticing. The devout theist will stare in wonder as they find exactly three green peas on their plate, arranged in an artful triangle. Is it manna from heaven? A manifestation of the Trinity? Perhaps those peas were always there, but only with the blessing of the Lord were they made apparent to mortal eyes.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Funnily enough, I used to 'fake pray' when I was a born-again Christian. I also faked speaking in tongues and I completely faked a fainting fit when I was exorcised because I'd seen others faint and knew it was expected. In fact, it was that faking (and the suspicion that everyone was at it) that led me down the dear path of atheism.

I had a similar experience. As a then-Christian who was beginning to question my beliefs, my Christian friends thought it would be a good idea to take me to Hockley Pentecostal, a very OTT evangelical church not far from where you live. There was dancing in the isles, energetic gospel songs, people fainting due to 'the power of the Spirit' and lots of speaking in tounges.

It didn't work. The pastor came over as a skilled MC who knew how to work a crowd (though I don't doubt his personal integrety), and I remained untouched by the fainting and tounges, except for feeling a little light-headed due to hyper-ventilation. It just didn't work for me. I didn't fake it - I just sat down and gave up. This was the beginning of the end for my faith.

 

[Mid]

The only times I’ve come into a situation where I’ve needed to fake pray was at funerals at which I usually just think of the deceased. This I think is a better response than what the rest of my fairly non religious family and relatives do which is trying to join in, this usually devolves into a complete farce.

 

[tkingdoll]

When it happens at dinner, you can seize the opportunity to plan strategy. I'm not saying go ahead and put food on your plate. But if you want first servings of a particular dish, you might be able to unobtrusively edge it closer to you and put a few obstacle dishes between your target and your nearest rival. Scoot something nice closer to you, and scoot something nasty further away.

If the devotion goes on too long, you can get revenge by shifting someone's glass so they're bound to knock it over when they unfold their hands and put their head up.

For the less mean, but more surreally-inclined, you can take the quiet time to put food on other people's plates without them noticing. The devout theist will stare in wonder as they find exactly three green peas on their plate, arranged in an artful triangle. Is it manna from heaven? A manifestation of the Trinity? Perhaps those peas were always there, but only with the blessing of the Lord were they made apparent to mortal eyes.

Man, that's funny. Hee hee. My mischevious nature is already trying to think of occasions where I might pull something like this. I'm going to a wedding on Saturday, ideal!

It would be hilarious in a dinner situation to smear your own plate with gravy then when the grace is over and everyone looks up, rub your belly as though full and say "mmm, that was delicious, what's for pudding?"

I wouldn't have the guts though.

 

[Bentspoon]

I like most others here, remain respectfully silent until people finish. If it is grace at the table, I bow my head in respect for the people who have invited me. If it is at my place - there is no grace at the table so I would assume that I am a guest in someone's house under these circumstances.

However, in a public situation or at a wedding or funeral, I do not bow my head but maintain silence. I would not be moving about.

Here is another take on this question:

Has anyone turned to you at the dinner table and asked you to say grace?

I have and I refused saying that I do not share that faith and would not show disrespect by trying fake it. Then ask the host to please have another say grace for the group. In this situation, I was exposed meaning that there were people there who had no idea I was an atheist or that they even really existed (in laws).

Bentspoon

 

[H3LL]

Fake: To engage in feigning, simulation, or other deceptive activity.

It's all fake as others are feigning talking to something that isn't there in an attempt to deceive others/themselves.

I stand or sit quietly on the few occasions I've been involved in prayer. I will never kneel or bow without a gun to my head.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Has anyone turned to you at the dinner table and asked you to say grace?

Yes.

I gave a very moving prayer that everyone quite appreciated right up until the end when I finally mentioned the name of the goddess Isis, to whom we were praying.

Some people have no sense of humor. They're okay with thankfulness and reverence in general, but once you start naming names, they get huffy.

 

[clarsct]

Hmmmmmm


Well, Having been to a few wedding in the last couple of years, I guess I do not "Fake pray". I sit there with my head held high. My first real experience with this since I started being agnostic, though now I'm more atheist, I admit, was at my best friends wedding. The best man, also a close friend, was and is a complete, hardcore atheist. My friend who was married was and is a Roman Catholic, but a rather tolerant one, I must say. Everyone else kneeled and prayed. I was in the wedding party, and the Best Man and I would just meet eyes and smile every time. I think he even waved once. It was our way of saying "Well, bud, we're happy for you, but all this kneeling and stuff is a load of crap. We're willing to be tolerant for your sake, but don't expect us to buy into it." When it came time for communion, we both crossed our arms and shook our heads. The priest presiding said that was proper, as we weren't Catholic. So no biggie there.


Now, my Fiancee's family is pretty Lutheran. I went to a couple of weddings and didn't bow my head, only to have the pastor glare at me throughout the reading. I thought it was funny. I stared him in the eye and smiled. My soon-to-be Mother in Law tried to castigate me for not praying, until I pointed out to her that she couldn't have known, had she BEEN praying. Seemed to take the wind out of her sails.

My own wedding will be conducted with a civil ceremony, and a blessing done by her uncle, a Lutheran pastor. It was a compromise, and folks seem to be happy. I figure the blessing of an imaginary being doesn't hurt any. Although, her aunt(different branch than the aformentioned uncle) is still asking her if I'm going to be baptised at the wedding. My friends find this quite amusing. One asked which Special Forces team she was going to have do so.


At any rate, I do not fake pray, but neither do I deny anyone else from praying. Go ahead. I've never been asked to say grace, but I have thought of something like TM's response if I had. Alas, I have lacked to oppourtunity. I think those who know me warn people actively away from asking me such things. Bastards!

 

[Glacian]

I haven't been in any situations recently where people pray - my parents actually avoid praying now or do something short and almost....secular, since their entire set of offspring are no longer "of the faith". I am usually quiet and respectful, but I recall one time in sunday school about 2 or 3 years ago, when the teacher (pastor's wife) would have us go in a circle, and people would say "Well, my grandma is sick..." etc., until we all finished, then she'd repeat all of the people to pray for and we'd "pray" for them. I usually found the prayers disgustingly pretentious - I never saw praying to god FOR things to be anything but...blasphemous - while yes, I believed in God for many years and am not ashamed to admit that (why should I be?), and I don't make any pretense of "always being an atheist", I always had a gripe with prayer. Anyway, one time we got to this girl who wanted to say a prayer because her car got a flat tire. Yup. Not for the children dying of cancer, not for terrorism victims or orphans or the oppressed - no...her car. I insisted the teacher return to me so I could say something about all the "unwanted girls abandoned in china" (or something like that), and she got in an argument with me. According to her, we shouldn't care about people (and certainly not pray for them!) from other countries until everyone in our country was taken care of first. It got to the point where I asked her bluntly "Do you consider an American life more valuable than a Chinese life?"

Her answer: Yes.

Ugh, I was so disgusted with this girl.

Oh yes, and I also usually spend "prayer time" or any other moments of silence, anthems, shows of respect, etc. checking out girls. I also did it during every church service, sunday school class, and so on. It just feels so right to have such...naughty thoughts in your head when you're in church. Perhaps I did it just to stick my nose up at god a little...but I also did it because some of those preppy Christian girls were friggin' hot.

 

[RamblingOnwards]

It got to the point where I asked her bluntly "Do you consider an American life more valuable than a Chinese life?"

Her answer: Yes.

Ugh, I was so disgusted with this girl.

[OT]
Her response wasn't entirely wrong. If you're left with the insanely unlikely choice of having to chose who to save, it is entirely reasonable to save in (some variation of) the order:

own child, partner, family member, other child, friend, aquaintance, fellow (identifying group), total stranger.

how heavily you weigh the various familial, fraternal and geographical bonds is up to you, but in either/or situations, it's perfectly reasonable for an American to chose an American, or a Chinese person to chose a Chinese person.
[/OT]

 

[w@ntonsoup]

My wife's whole family are Evangelical nutcases who pray all the freaking time. Since we eat big family meals there a few times a year, it came up often.

At first we went along, holding hands but not looking down, closing our eyes, and praying, but just looking at each other and rolling our eyes.

Then, we started making ourselves busy when they'd pray. I'd be stirring the food and my wife would be bringing in pop from the garage.

Now, we just say "No Thanks" while they waste their time and look at each other and roll our eyes.

 

[Jas]

I gave a very moving prayer that everyone quite appreciated right up until the end when I finally mentioned the name of the goddess Isis, to whom we were praying.

So what was the reaction?

I've considered offering an homage to our Heavenly Father Zeus, or maybe popping in a reference to Odin, but haven't had the balls yet to go through with it.

 

[TragicMonkey]

So what was the reaction?

I've considered offering an homage to our Heavenly Father Zeus, or maybe popping in a reference to Odin, but haven't had the balls yet to go through with it.

They just chalked it up to my well-known eccentricity, and did a quick "real" grace of their own. I got a couple of nasty looks, but most were confused. I hadn't realized that so many people only know Isis from the seventies television show.

Which makes me angry. How can people be so certain their religion is the correct one when they know nothing about previous religions?

 

[tkingdoll]

Which makes me angry. How can people be so certain their religion is the correct one when they know nothing about previous religions?

Oh my god! You're so right! I never thought of that before! I'm seriously going to have to reconsider my worship of Vitumnus. That's ten years of foetus-worship down the drain

 

[Glacian]

[OT]
Her response wasn't entirely wrong. If you're left with the insanely unlikely choice of having to chose who to save, it is entirely reasonable to save in (some variation of) the order:

own child, partner, family member, other child, friend, aquaintance, fellow (identifying group), total stranger.

how heavily you weigh the various familial, fraternal and geographical bonds is up to you, but in either/or situations, it's perfectly reasonable for an American to chose an American, or a Chinese person to chose a Chinese person.
[/OT]

Yes, but the way she said it implied that Americans were somehow superior to Chinese - it was evident in the tone of her voice, she said it with a pompous sneer, as if concern over Chinese people was beneath her.

 

[Paulhoff]

I fake pray, no problem with that, most people that I know personally, know that I am agnostic. Fake praying is just being polite. If I go to a Church, Temple or any faith, I will do what is need and only needed to be polite. I get upset when I see a place of faith burnt down or it being vandalized. Many people need these places of worship, and as long as they don’t take my right to be different away there is no problem. Ben Franklin who was not all that religious belonged to many churches and maybe a temple, because he thought they did more good than harm and knew it was good public relations for him.

Speaking in tongues. My father told me that it also can mean, speaking so that anyone of any tongue would understand you in their on tongue. Like using a Star Trek universal translator. When someone does that type of speaking in tongues, I may rethink my thoughts.

Paul