Do Not Forget The Heroes

[gumboot]

Not at all. Fight or flight is pure instinct and requires no forethought. They could have just sat their cowering and hoped they made it through it.

Fight-or-flight is also a hard-wired instinctive response to inter-SPECIES interactions.

The response mechanism for intra-species interaction is dominate-or-submit.

-Gumboot

 

[gumboot]

I find it hard to belive the hijackers would have ditched the plane in a field in PA if the cockpit was not under serious contention. I belive the two outside the cockpit had been neutralized and a serious attempt to break into the cockpit was underway.

We're talking about UA175, not UA93...

-Gumboot

 

[Vincent Vega]

Duh! Sorry, missed that part.

 

[fuelair]

I'm not sure how that is a measure of courage. Seems like simple "fight or flight" reaction.

By my standards, it is the measure of how many slaves will go with him to the afterlife. (given that I do not believe in an afterlife, make it how many will die to kill me.)

 

[fuelair]

Thats my take on it. Cut of an enemys retreat - effectively take choices away. Chances are they will fight with greater determination. In the case with the passengers on those planes - 93 in particular. They figured riding the situation out was not going to work, in all probabilty they would die no matter the course of action. Fighting it out at least gave them hope of a positive out come. Sadly history shows they failed......... but still makes them no less heros

You have not failed if your enemy dies before you. I hope they did not fail - though that we will never know - but they succeeded in taking the fight to the enemy.

 

[LashL]

That looks like a very useful and detailed document, indeed, gumboot.
I am fairly certain that I have seen it before but I am not sure if I have ever read it in full, and I am sure that I have never printed it out before. As I did not have time to read all of it this weekend, (and because I prefer to read lengthy documents on paper rather than on my computer monitor) I have emailed it to myself at my work address so that I can print it out and read it more closely as and when time permits, but having skimmed through it this weekend, I can tell that it will be very useful on many points. Thanks for posting it

 

[gumboot]

That looks like a very useful and detailed document, indeed, gumboot.
I am fairly certain that I have seen it before but I am not sure if I have ever read it in full, and I am sure that I have never printed it out before. As I did not have time to read all of it this weekend, (and because I prefer to read lengthy documents on paper rather than on my computer monitor) I have emailed it to myself at my work address so that I can print it out and read it more closely as and when time permits, but having skimmed through it this weekend, I can tell that it will be very useful on many points. Thanks for posting it

It was one of those lucky finds...

I think it gives a better understanding of why there were delays between "first sign of hijacking" and "notifying military" and that sort of thing.

I had suspected, but now I can see how it would have occurred clearly. Of course it's easy in hindsight to think the moment something odd happened fighters should have been scrambled.

What we see is a gradual understanding by the "system" of what was actually happening. If you look at each flight, you can see how unique features affected the response:

AA11
-No expectation of suicide attack
-Caught off guard by lack of historic hijackings
-No confirmation of impact with WTC

UA175
-Same ATC already handling AA11
-Very short flight time
-System still dealing with shock of AA11

AA77
-Tracked by ATC out of the Boston/New York loop (didn't know what was going on)
-Assumed crashed
-Lost in primary radar gap

UA93
-Everyone knew what to expect (including passengers)
-Everyone knew what was going on (including passengers)
-NORAD had fighters in the air
-121st Fighter Squadron had fighters in the air
-FAA tracking UA93

-Gumboot

 

[Undesired Walrus]

In the film United 93, one of the characters says they can fly the plane. Do we know for a fact that they were going to try to do that, or was it just speculation?

 

[sophia8]

In the film United 93, one of the characters says they can fly the plane. Do we know for a fact that they were going to try to do that, or was it just speculation?

One of the passengers Don Greene was a licensed pilot. So he may well have said something like that.

 

[Brainster]

It's a staff monograph from the 9-11 Commission.

Staff Monograph on the Four Flights and Civil Aviation Security (first and second releases)

The September 12, 2005 version of the Adobe Acrobat PDF Staff Monograph on the "Four Flights and Civil Aviation Security" resulted from a second review of the report by the executive branch. This version was released by the U.S. Department of Justice and transferred into the custody of the National Archives on September 12, 2005. This newer version contains less redacted information than the first version released on January 28, 2005.