• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Do Mammograms Cause Cancer?

Rouser2

Unregistered
R
Joined
Oct 6, 2001
Messages
1,730
It certainly would seem so since all x-rays pose a cancer risk. The lastest evidence reported in the current issue of The Lancet by Amy Berrington de González and Sarah Darby found that in Britain the risk of anyone up to the age of 75 getting cancer from diagnostic X-rays was about 0.6%. This amounted to about 700 of the 124,000 cases of cancer diagnosed each year in the UK. But this was a much lower percentage than in some other countries. In Japan the figure was put at more than 3%. Diagnostic X-rays include mammograms. It would seem that women even as young as age 50 risk contracting breast cancer from the very diagnostic tool which claims to detect it, but with error rates so high and accurate detection rates so low as to make the risk/benefit ratio of such x-rays highly dubious.

http://www.thelancet.com/


-- Rouser
 
Yes all x-rays cause Cancer, thus any procedure involving an x-ray increases the risk for Cancer. I believe that studies show that mammograms do reduce mortality due to breast cancer, thus the risk of the mammograms is outweighed by the benefit of earlier diagnosis and with modern cancer treatments this leads to increased survival.

The study points out that different practices in different countires account for the differing rates. (too many uses of the diff word in that sentence!)
Additionally there is a good chance that this study overestimates mortality caused by medical x-ray usage because the data used is based on the Japanese post Hiroshima/Nagasaki studies which may not extrapolate well, however it is the only real source of data we have about Cancer risk from radiation (ethics and all that ya know). (Notably the post H bomb study patients were exposed to various types of radiation, not just x-rays)

What the study says is that x-rays have many important medical usages, however there is a risk associated with them, so medics should think before they order an x-ray.

An additional thought of mine, is how will this sit with defensive medical practices ie ordering every test so you don't miss something an get sued. This tends to happen more in the US i believe. Damned either way :)
 
Originally posted by Prester John [/i]


>>I believe that studies show that mammograms do reduce mortality due to breast cancer,

I don't think so. The question is, do mammograms cause more cancer deaths than they prevent?


-- Rouser
 
well, a mammogram just saved my sister's life, so i'm a little biased.
everything i've seen finds that the tiny risk is well balanced by lives saved.

a more important question to me is why when a less painful technology exists than the mammogram, it isn't used. even though my sister is currently in chemotherapy, i really, really, really don't want to go for the twice/yr mammograms. not because i worry about the exposure, but because they freaking put your boob in a clamp! it is excrutiating for large breasted women like me.

i will go for my regular mammogram when they start doing scrotal exams with a vise grip.
 
Rouser2 said:
I don't think so. The question is, do mammograms cause more cancer deaths than they prevent?
Click to expand...
No.

And please dont ask questions like that again.
 
Rouser2 said:
Originally posted by Prester John [/i]


>>I believe that studies show that mammograms do reduce mortality due to breast cancer,

I don't think so. The question is, do mammograms cause more cancer deaths than they prevent?


-- Rouser
Click to expand...

What Yahweh said.
 
What gave my mother breast cancer wasn't mammograms, but the hormone replacement therapy she was on (my family's history has no breast cancer at all, and cancers in general are almost unheard of among us. Heart disease OTOH is our achilles heel).

Hormone relacement therapy is what needs to go. There must be some evolutionary advantage to menopause, so why interfere with it?
 
I was curious about dosages from flying in comparison to medical scans, and Google brought up this from the BBC:

Radiation doses (milli Seiverts)

UK yearly dose 2.6
Chest x-ray .02
Fortnight in Cornwall 0.2
Bag of Brazil nuts a week 0.2
Jar of Mussels a week 0.25
Frequent flyer 0.4
Click to expand...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/557340.stm

The frequent flyer dosage is for 100 hours flying.

So a chest x-ray is equivalent to 5 hours flying. Or a few Brazil nuts. :p

Not sure I believe all that, but some interesting sources of natural radiation if true nonetheless.
 
Originally posted by Rolfe [/i]


>>
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rouser2
The question is, do mammograms cause more cancer deaths than they prevent?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>At a wild guess, no.

Rolfe.


Oh, but a recent Danish study of previous studies on the alleged effectiveness of mammography, concludes that mammography is worthless in preventing breast cancer deaths.

"There is no reliable evidence that regular mammograms reduce the risk of dying of breast cancer in women of any age, according to Danish researchers who performed an analysis of all of the major studies that have addressed the issue. "

"The two most scientifically sound studies, which the authors called medium quality, found no reduction in breast cancer deaths among women who had regular mammograms. In contrast, the three studies considered poor quality reported, on average, a 32 percent reduction in breast cancer mortality. None of the five found that having mammograms reduced overall mortality."

From: Analysis: Mammograms Don't Cut Cancer Death Risk
Danish Researchers Find No Reliable Evidence in Major Studies to Support Medical Consensus
By Susan Okie
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 19, 2001; Page A02

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A18705-2001Oct18


Thus, when you posit the fact that mammogram x-rays do indeed cause some cancers together with the proposition that mammogram screenings do not reduce overall mortality, then one must conclude that mammograms do indeed cause more cancer deaths than they prevent. Just another instance where Modern Medicine's "cure" is worse than the disease. Quack, quack!!

-- Rouser
 
bug_girl said:
well, a mammogram just saved my sister's life, so i'm a little biased.
everything i've seen finds that the tiny risk is well balanced by lives saved.

a more important question to me is why when a less painful technology exists than the mammogram, it isn't used. even though my sister is currently in chemotherapy, i really, really, really don't want to go for the twice/yr mammograms. not because i worry about the exposure, but because they freaking put your boob in a clamp! it is excrutiating for large breasted women like me.

i will go for my regular mammogram when they start doing scrotal exams with a vise grip.
Click to expand...

I have fibroids and cysts in my breasts and elsewhere. When I discovered my first lump, I was off to have a mammogram. When they saw the lumps (that could be felt) on the mammogram, they sent me to ultrasound for a good look at them.

Why don't they just take you to ultrasound first?

It seems counterintuitive to smash a breast full of cysts in a mammogram machine.
 
what i was told was that the mammograms are cheaper, since it uses existing machinery. the xrays are better at finding microcalcifications, which are a sign of cancer.
however, i suspect that as time passes, the ultrasound will get better techniques.

i am always convinced that my boob will explode. yes guys, it's that bad.
 
Hand Bent Spoon said:
What gave my mother breast cancer wasn't mammograms, but the hormone replacement therapy she was on (my family's history has no breast cancer at all, and cancers in general are almost unheard of among us.
Click to expand...
The statistic I heard was that if a woman doesn't take HRT between the ages of 50 and 60, she has a 95.5% chance of not getting breast cancer. If she takes HRT for that period, this chance drops to 95%.

I have a friend whose wife was picked up with a small breast lesion (now thankfully dealt with), who is also convinced that the HRT caused it. But in fact, although it exerted an effect, it's a relatively small effect. For any one given case, the chances are that the HRT didn't cause it, but you can't be sure. Most breast cancer is not familial.

The more interesting question is whether my friend's wife would ever have experienced any actual trouble from the small ductal carcinoma insitu which was picked up at routine mammography, or whether it would never have progressed and all her stress and surgery were unnecesssary.

She thinks, better safe than sorry.

One other statistic I heard (though I don't off-hand know the source), is that the death rate from breast cancer for women taking HRT is lower, belived to be due to the fact that the known risk factor, though small, provided these women with more incentive to do the screening and the self-examination and so on, thus detected their tumours earlier, whether or not the HRT caused them.

Rolfe.
 
Rouser2 said:
Oh, but a recent Danish study of previous studies on the alleged effectiveness of mammography, concludes that mammography is worthless in preventing breast cancer deaths.

"There is no reliable evidence that regular mammograms reduce the risk of dying of breast cancer in women of any age, according to Danish researchers who performed an analysis of all of the major studies that have addressed the issue. "

"The two most scientifically sound studies, which the authors called medium quality, found no reduction in breast cancer deaths among women who had regular mammograms. In contrast, the three studies considered poor quality reported, on average, a 32 percent reduction in breast cancer mortality. None of the five found that having mammograms reduced overall mortality."

From: Analysis: Mammograms Don't Cut Cancer Death Risk
Danish Researchers Find No Reliable Evidence in Major Studies to Support Medical Consensus
By Susan Okie
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 19, 2001; Page A02

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A18705-2001Oct18


Thus, when you posit the fact that mammogram x-rays do indeed cause some cancers together with the proposition that mammogram screenings do not reduce overall mortality, then one must conclude that mammograms do indeed cause more cancer deaths than they prevent. Just another instance where Modern Medicine's "cure" is worse than the disease. Quack, quack!!

-- Rouser
Click to expand...
WOW!! I AM TOTALLY BLOWN AWAY!!

Now call me crazy, but I had always assumed detecting early stages of cancer, then treating the cancer if it was found would be beneficial. Silly me for being ignorant!

I mean, when Grandma Yahweh had her mammogram 2 years ago, and then later treated for breast cancer, well who would I be to judge that this mammogram did actually help her. I mean, she could have just waited for the cancer to develope to terminal stage, but nooooo she just had to get a check before it would ever have a chance to reach that stage in development.

And there there is Momma Yahweh, now she's had a history of medical problems. Oops, a few "abnormalities" (of the cancerous variety) were found, they were treated, and Momma Yahweh hasnt had a problem.

And Aunt Yahweh, who can forget about her. A few cysts removed, they did not pose an immediate problem, but when my family has a pretty impressive history of breast and lung cancer, you never want to take too many risks.

Silly me, thinking all these medical examinations designed for early detection of cancer were of any benefit.


I am perfectly aware mammograms may miss tumors, but for every tumor they miss, they find 20 others.

Mammograms (at about 50% sensitivity) are less efficient than sonography (90% sensitivity) (source: Pub-med), but that is not to say they are medically worthless. They save lives, and why you object to that is beyond me.

So you managed to find some studies which extremely false data that happen to agree with you, well color me unimpressed. ‹^›
 
Rouser2 said:
Thus, when you posit the fact that mammogram x-rays do indeed cause some cancers together with the proposition that mammogram screenings do not reduce overall mortality, then one must conclude that mammograms do indeed cause more cancer deaths than they prevent. Just another instance where Modern Medicine's "cure" is worse than the disease. Quack, quack!!

-- Rouser [/B]
Click to expand...

You're in the same situation as your inane anti-vaccination claims. First, you have to quanitfy the number of cancers attributed to mammograms. You have no such data, just a guesstimate based partially on nuclear bomb survival data. Equally suspect is your claim that mammograms have no benefit. No credible evidence for either claim, as usual...
 
Actually, Rouser, you have not even made a point at all. Your Danish report was on the efficacy of mammograms to detect cancer based on a meta-study of five (that's FIVE) previous studies of mammography efficacy.

Well, gee. I would be willing to suggest that mammography was introduced in each country it operates in only after it was rigourously scrutinised by many, MANY independent scientific studies that DID show that it was in some way effective at what it claims.

After all, most of these mamograph screening programs are paid for by governments out of taxes, and the health budgets are notoriously placed at the bottom of the out-basket. Which means there has to be a really, REALLY good scientific case to be made to get the pollies to cough up even the tidbit of cash they have so far to make the screening possible. And if it EVER proved to be ineffective, I'm sure the money supply would dry up (have dried up) instantly. But it hasn't. Hmmmm...

But I'm sure we all agree that clamping a woman's breast in a vice to take an X-ray image is painful, and that X-rays have a known but extremely low effect on initiating cancer (see above). But it has been proven since the 1940's that it is far more effective for the person and their family and the community that mammographs actually get done - Yahweh has given you direct evidence, and many of the rest of us can do the same.

It is also clear that soon there may well be much better, more comfortable and even safer ways to detect in-body cancer and other illnesses. And when THEY become proven as more efficacious, the days of boob-crushing X-ray mammography will indeed end.
 
Rouser2 said:
It certainly would seem so since all x-rays pose a cancer risk. The lastest evidence reported in the current issue of The Lancet by Amy Berrington de González and Sarah Darby found that in Britain the risk of anyone up to the age of 75 getting cancer from diagnostic X-rays was about 0.6%. This amounted to about 700 of the 124,000 cases of cancer diagnosed each year in the UK. But this was a much lower percentage than in some other countries. In Japan the figure was put at more than 3%. Diagnostic X-rays include mammograms. It would seem that women even as young as age 50 risk contracting breast cancer from the very diagnostic tool which claims to detect it, but with error rates so high and accurate detection rates so low as to make the risk/benefit ratio of such x-rays highly dubious.

http://www.thelancet.com/


-- Rouser
Click to expand...

Well, of course I didn't follow your link. But even without any evidence, I can answer the question. How you ask? Based on things you have posted in the past, it's simple:

1) You believe there were multiple assassins in Dealey Plaza.
2) You believe the moon landing was a hoax.
3) You believe vaccinations are part of some evil government plot.
4) You believe the current Mars landings are a hoax.
5) Now you seem to imply that mammograms cause cancer.

Now, based upon #1-#5, we can conclude that you are an idiot. Therefore, if you say that mammograms cause cancer, it is obvious that they do not.

See how that works?

Moron.
 
Rouser2 said:
It certainly would seem so since all x-rays pose a cancer risk. The lastest evidence reported in the current issue of The Lancet by Amy Berrington de González and Sarah Darby found that in Britain the risk of anyone up to the age of 75 getting cancer from diagnostic X-rays was about 0.6%. This amounted to about 700 of the 124,000 cases of cancer diagnosed each year in the UK. But this was a much lower percentage than in some other countries. In Japan the figure was put at more than 3%. Diagnostic X-rays include mammograms. It would seem that women even as young as age 50 risk contracting breast cancer from the very diagnostic tool which claims to detect it, but with error rates so high and accurate detection rates so low as to make the risk/benefit ratio of such x-rays highly dubious.

http://www.thelancet.com/


-- Rouser
Click to expand...

From that same article:

Berrington de González and Darby did not assess the indications or benefits achieved for patients in X-ray examinations
Click to expand...

So checking whether there was a balance of benefit was outside the scope of their study

Benefits include the earlier detection of cancers by radiological examinations and the possibility of early treatment, which probably allows more cure of cancers than radiological exposure is able to cause.
Click to expand...

But of course this is just an assertion because checking whether there was a balance of benefit was outside the scope of their study

Interpretation We provide detailed estimates of the cancer risk from diagnostic X-rays. The calculations involved a number of assumptions and so are inevitably subject to considerable uncertainty. The possibility that we have overestimated the risks cannot be ruled out, but that we have underestimated them substantially seems unlikely.
Click to expand...

Oh, and by the way, they consider the 700 figure to be high

From their figures, 29 out of a total of 21,164 breast cancer cases MAY have been caused by screening

Although there are clear benefits from the use of diagnostic X-rays, that their use involves some risk of cancer is generally acknowledged.
Click to expand...


I think that it's valuable to question whether a particualr treatment is effective. Thsi study was dorected at evaluating the risks.

Looks like the process of chacking the effecacy of treatments is working as usual...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom