Do Homeopathy patients know the "theory"

Since it works very well for me and my pets and quite a number of people that I know, I would be beyond foolish to conclude it was anything of the sort.

No... it would actually be very wise of you to consider the well-understood mechanisms of placebo/coincidental healing rather than jump to the wholly unproven and implausible(if not impossible) homeopathy conclusion.

Think of it like the Kentucky Derby... its not foolish to put your money on a horse rather than a unicorn.
 
Since it works very well for me and my pets and quite a number of people that I know, I would be beyond foolish to conclude it was anything of the sort.
Have you tried an experiment?
You would need a mild symptom which repeats itself fairly often, for which you think a particular homeopathic remedy helps in a way that is clearly observable. Then you would need to get some homeopathic blank pills and a lot of little containers and a random list of numbers. Get a friend to put a remedy pill or a blank pill in each container, assigning the numbers randomly to the containers, but recording which number had which type of pill.
Whenever your cat has a hairball or whatever, you randomly pick one of the tubes, write down the number, give the cat the pill, and record the results. Do this MANY times. Then break the code to find out if there was a difference between to remedy and the blanks. (There are lots of ways you could do this - but you need a lot of observations, not just a couple).
Doing this experiment uses too small a sample to draw a clear conclusion. But it might be enlightening.
 
The other reaction I have had (for both Homeopathy and other woo- Ayurveda, Siddha, Unani- we have a LOT of alternative medicine) is "I dont want to know. It works so it works"

With regard to the knowledge level, funnily enough it is the "educated" guys that go in for the woo. The illiterates head straight for the regular doctors
 
Homeopaths will tell you that using “allopathy” negates or suppresses the effects of homeopathy. They are not meant to be used together.[/FONT]

But "standard" medicine says homeopathy just does nothing (it doesn't suppresses anything). So, if you take both, any effect you notice has to be due to the standard treatment, as the homeopatic one has been cancelled.
 
Actually, many homoeopaths recommend that you use their remedies in connection with "allopathic" medicines. They claim that the homoeopathic effect is enhanced :D
 
In fact, homoeopaths will claim pretty much anything. It must be nice not to be constrained by inconvenient facts.
 
They seem to claim anything that enters their head at that moment! Not surprising, as they have no standards of proof, and are quite used to making it up on the fly.

Classical homoeopathy is strictly "alternative", with most homoeopaths quite insistent that the use of real medicines will "antidote" the homoeopathic remedy. Some even claim that vaccination in infancy is enough to prevent homoeopathic remedies working in an adult. Others extend the list of taboo substances to things like coffee, perfume, even mint, I think. So there's virtually always a get-out if nothing useful seems to have happened.

As regards the effect of real medicine in antidoting homoeopathic remedies, this is from a recently-published book by a couple of veterinary homoeopaths.
There is little doubt that most orthodox drugs impede the action of homeopathic remedies. This is not surprising when one considers that the action of most of these medicines is in direct contradiction to that of homeopathy; anything which suppresses a reaction of the body will act counter to homeopathy, and considering the subtle energetic nature of homeopathic medicine it is only logical that such powerful drugs as corticosteroids and NSAIDs will antidote its effects.
I still wonder why corticosteroids should have such a marked effect, when the body is already awash with endogenous corticosteroids. Which are just as biologically active as those given as drugs, if not more so.

Anyway, that's the classical view. Real medicine will stop the homoeopathy from working, therefore you must come off real medicine before you'll get any benefit from homoeopathy.

However, an entirely contrary view has become common, especially in Britain where homoeopathy managed to get itself incorporated into the NHS. Realising that the above advice would be suicidal (not to mention frequently homicidal) medical homoeopaths have re-branded and re-marketed their product as "complementary medicine". In this version, the patient stays on whatever real medicine he or she requires, but the homoeopaths offer a little bit extra on top, and/or claim that use of homoeopathy can reduce the dose of the real medicine needed to maintain good health. This is of course completely against the principles of classical homoeopathy, but it's such good product placement (while removing the homoeopath from the danger of an action for negligence if someone were to be advised to discontinue essential medication) that it's become the most widespread form of homoeopathy in this country. Thus it is entirely justifiable to conduct trials of homoeopathy as an "adjunctive" treatment - that's how it's usually used, and in the "clinic" (as opposed to the controlled trial) the homoeopaths claim as good a success rate with this method as with any other.

Leela (at H'pathy) is an intersting example of this breed. When challenged that the standard H'pathy advice to consult a homoeopath first was dangerous, as it might lead to serious diseases going unrecognised, she insisted that all homoeopaths only see already-diagnosed patients who are already on medication, and no responsible homoeopath would ever recommend discontinuing this. Nevertheless she still claimed to be able to reduce the dose of insulin a diabetic patient would need to maintain stability, another testable claim with no evidence at all to back it up.

However, in a different thread, the same Leela was bemoaning the fact that homoeopaths only get to see patients after they've been treated by conventional means. She was quite sure that homoeopathy could completely cure diabetes, if only they were allowed to see patients before they'd been irretrievably antidoted with all that nasty insulin.

I can't say I've ever encountered a claim that homoeopathic treatment will increase the activity of a conventional medicine, but given their propensity for claiming anything that enters their heads, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

Rolfe.
 
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The other reaction I have had (for both Homeopathy and other woo- Ayurveda, Siddha, Unani- we have a LOT of alternative medicine) is "I dont want to know. It works so it works"

With regard to the knowledge level, funnily enough it is the "educated" guys that go in for the woo. The illiterates head straight for the regular doctors

My response is that thalidomide worked great for morning sickness as well.

Athon
 
To the OP - since the evidence I've seen of homeopathic practitioners posting on this and other forums is that they don't know much about the so-called theory that underlies their magic potions I suspect that most people being frauded by a homeopathic snake-oil sales person will know even less. (Mind you in their crazy world less is more so perhaps that means they know everything?)
 
I still wonder why corticosteroids should have such a marked effect, when the body is already awash with endogenous corticosteroids. Which are just as biologically active as those given as drugs, if not more so.
I already answered this one. The endogenous ones are happy natural corticosteroids, all full of subtle and positive energies, while the ones administered as drugs are nasty evil CHEMICALS, made in huge factories which are destroying the environment, by mad scientists and bloated plutocrats who eat their own young. :jaw-dropp :eek: :jaw-dropp ;)

Drugs. Just say no, kids. :D
 
Yes, I was talking about classical homeopathy – how it’s meant to be practised.

As usual, Rolfe has explained things very clearly.

“Complementary homeopathy” is not true homeopathy, but in the irrational world of pseudoscience, I guess anything goes.

I’m an insulin dependant diabetic; and I’d like to see what homeopathy could do for me in place of insulin. I suspect it might help relieve my thirst ;) before I fell into a coma.
 
Yes, I was talking about classical homeopathy – how it’s meant to be practised.

As usual, Rolfe has explained things very clearly.

“Complementary homeopathy” is not true homeopathy, but in the irrational world of pseudoscience, I guess anything goes.

I’m an insulin dependant diabetic; and I’d like to see what homeopathy could do for me in place of insulin. I suspect it might help relieve my thirst ;) before I fell into a coma.

But it's too late for you - those alopathic poisons have damaged you beyond the reach of homeopathy.
 
I suspect it might help relieve my thirst ;) before I fell into a coma.
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The vast majority of homoeopathic remedies are not presented as water, they are sugar pills. Certainly anything you buy OTC will be sugar pills (£4.95 for a teaspoonful of sugar - nice work if you can get it!). I rather like the "sugar pills" as a sound-bite, too. Suitably derogatory, as well as being true, and it also reminds the informed listener of the utter irrelevance of any "memory of water" theories.
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So. It would probably send you even faster into that coma.

Rolfe.
 
[mode=pedant]
The vast majority of homoeopathic remedies are not presented as water, they are sugar pills. Certainly anything you buy OTC will be sugar pills (£4.95 for a teaspoonful of sugar - nice work if you can get it!). I rather like the "sugar pills" as a sound-bite, too. Suitably derogatory, as well as being true, and it also reminds the informed listener of the utter irrelevance of any "memory of water" theories.
[/mode]

So. It would probably send you even faster into that coma.

Rolfe.
Don't they call them pillules? Another way of dressing up something it's not?
 
I suppose they treat diabetes with homeopathic glucose - then evaporate the "remedy" onto a lactose pill. :D
 
Homeopahty is almost invariably presented something like this:

"Homeopathy uses the principle of like cures like, as researched by the German physician Samuel Hahnemann. This is the principle of curing by giving extremely smal ldoses of a drug that will cause the same symptoms as the disease. Homeopathic drugs are highly diluted, and thus without the side effects known from conventional drugs."

So I expect most users get the impression that it is based on valid research and that there is some kind of active substance in the remedies.

Hans

Their cynical fakery is demonstrated by exactly that form of words which you highlight: "Homeopathic drugs are highly diluted"

For people who have no idea of chemistry "highly diluted" implies a potential for something still to be there, whereas "replaced by solvent" does not. The other careful word-choice is something similar to "tiny doses", whereas "none" would be accurate.

Mind you, our experience of the MAS collective suggests that some are just plain stupid and regard chemicals as infinitely divisible rather than a bag of marbles where repeated divisions mean that ultimately you either have 1 marble or 0 marbles in your bag.
 
If you look at the ingredients list for common, over-the-counter drugs, you will find that the active ingredients are often small -- a 1% solution for topical cortizone cream is considered strong, for example.

I suspect the average drugstore customer cannot differentiate between a seemingly weak 1% solution and homeopathic bottles with "very dilute" mixtures.

As John Allen Paulos might say, "It's all about innumeracy."
 
Yes, I was talking about classical homeopathy – how it’s meant to be practised.

As usual, Rolfe has explained things very clearly.

“Complementary homeopathy” is not true homeopathy, but in the irrational world of pseudoscience, I guess anything goes.

But this raises one of their fatal internal contradictions. They are utterly dependent on the validity of accumulated anecdotal evidence, but their practices are riven with incompatible approaches to homeopathy. I have never yet succeeded in getting a homeopath to think through the implications for this for their evidence base. In every instance, at least one of the two sides is wrong. We know that both sides are wrong, but it is pathetic that when they have just presented one side of such a dichotomy and you ask them why we should believe them and not the other side they usually become abusive and ignore the question.
 

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