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Do HIV and AIDS exist

robinson said:
Not everyone who has been exposed to HIV has tested positive for it, and those that have, not all of them have developed AIDS. This is not in dispute. While with enough time, some may, many still have not, even without medical treatment. It is one of those things that is being researched.

I don't make this stuff up, it is from researchers that this data is known.
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That's just biology for ya'. It's complicated. There are still more mysteries (with clues) than solid answers.
 
robinson said:
Not everyone who has been exposed to HIV has tested positive for it, and those that have, not all of them have developed AIDS.
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So, um,..... for which disease-causing agent is this not true?

I mean, not everyone exposed to the polio virus comes down with polio, or even tests positive for it.
Not everyone exposed to measles comes down with the measles. Et cetera, et cetera. Heck, not even everyone exposed to cyanide comes down with death....
 
robinson said:
There is no such word as denialists[sic], or denialist[sic].
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Hmm, didn't know that. Who coined the term then?

robinson said:
Not everyone who has been exposed to HIV has tested positive for it, and those that have, not all of them have developed AIDS. This is not in dispute. While with enough time, some may, many still have not, even without medical treatment. It is one of those things that is being researched.

I don't make this stuff up, it is from researchers that this data is known.
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I was specifically addressing your statement "And even if you get HIV, there is no evidence to show you will develop AIDS." Isn't the lab worker infection evidence? Or perhaps you meant that getting HIV does not always result in AIDS. There are individuals with a mutation in the gene for the CCR5 co-receptor who do not appear to get infected.
 
The controversy over HIV/AIDS is large, convoluted, and involves many many issues. That anyone would deny such controversies exist, is beyond belief. Claiming there is no debate, is dumb.

Even a quick glance at the media stories, the books published, the websites, (there a LOT), the lawsuits, and the medical studies, shows a wealth of issues, many of which involve politics, huge amounts of cash, and death. Civil liberties, employment, even the ability to travel. Health care, drug companies, and privacy issues.

In fact, there are few issues that seem to have as much controversy over them as HIV/AIDS. You might not know it from watching TV, but reading scientific journals, and looking at legal cases, there is controversy baby, and lots of it. The kind that usually makes me want to ignore it. Because it is an ugly fight, and it involves really big sums of money, and powerful special interest groups.

Not the kind of thing I like to step in, even on the best of days.

The Cuba issue is a good example. While Cuba offers the best place in the know Universe for a study of HIV/AIDS, you have to be insane to try and do it. Despite having the best health care system in the world, an ideal population for study, and extensive evidence of every AIDS case since 1983, well documented, with a small but living population of HIV infected subjects, dating back to 1983, you face a huge obstacle to doing research on it.

Just talking about it can lead to real trouble. Notice how it just isn't mentioned on any page "debating" AIDS, or HIV. Its like it doesn't exist. Nowhere has better long term scientific data on HIV and AIDS than Cuba. You can find every single person on the island that has HIV, you can check the records on every single person who has AIDS, or has died from it. It is a small number, out of a huge population.

Its a no-brainer. It is obvious. I doubt anyone who reads the data on Cuba will object to that. It is the kind of hard evidence that shows "something" detectable with HIV test can be spread, can make you sick, can kill you, and can be tested for.

While a lot of the stuff about HIV and AIDS is questionable, that there is some problem, that it can be spread, and more importantly, it can be stopped, is the lesson from Cuba. I have no doubts.

Never have.
 
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Robinson is a troll, and a bad one at that. I mean, really - "not everyone who's exposed to HIV gets HIV" or "not everyone who tests positive for HIV ends up with AIDS".

This is no better than saying that "not everyone who's exposed to measles and not immune gets measles" or "not everyone who gets measles ends up with SSPE".

C'mon, you have to do better than that, buddy. We already know you're being disingenous here, the least you can do is make it more challenging to figure out what your true motives are.
 
robinson said:
The controversy over HIV/AIDS is large, convoluted, and involves many many issues. That anyone would deny such controversies exist, is beyond belief. Claiming there is no debate, is dumb.
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The controversy over the value of Trepanation is large, convoluted, and involves many many issues. That anyone would deny such controversies exist, is beyond belief. Claiming there is no debate, is dumb

The controversy over the moon landing hoax is large, convoluted, and involves many many issues. That anyone would deny such controversies exist, is beyond belief. Claiming there is no debate, is dumb

The controversy over Multiple Chemical Sensitivity is large, convoluted, and involves many many issues. That anyone would deny such controversies exist, is beyond belief. Claiming there is no debate, is dumb

The controversy over vaccination causing autism is large, convoluted, and involves many many issues. That anyone would deny such controversies exist, is beyond belief. Claiming there is no debate, is dumb

Should I continue?
 
Capsid said:
Hmm, didn't know that. Who coined the term then?
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I have no idea. It smacks of religion and stupidity to me. Making up a word to describe some group of people, is woo. (irony intended)


Capsid said:
I was specifically addressing your statement "And even if you get HIV, there is no evidence to show you will develop AIDS." Isn't the lab worker infection evidence? Or perhaps you meant that getting HIV does not always result in AIDS. There are individuals with a mutation in the gene for the CCR5 co-receptor who do not appear to get infected.
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Looking at the data, it is obvious.

Exposure to HIV infected fluid does not always lead to HIV infection.

Infection with HIV does not always lead to AIDS.

Testing Positive for HIV doesn't mean you will get AIDS.

I don't think anyone with a brain denies this. Sure you might think it isn't so, based on Media Propaganda, but the science doesn't show this at all.

Experience tells me that the woo mind will react badly to this. Woo thinking may try to confuse the issues, maybe even act like a nutcase. So what? This is nothing new. People who believe something, really hate having to think about it. Skeptics are a minority. Most people just believe stuff, they don't question it.
 
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robinson said:
There is no such word as denialists[sic], or denialist[sic].
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It does seem to be a real world, given denialist turns up over a hundred thousand google hits, while framantic turns up 0.

So going by useage it seems to be a real word.
 
None of that changes the other facts. HIV can be transmitted, HIV can lead to AIDS, and most people who test positive are infected with HIV, and will have problems because of it. Many problems.

I don't dispute any of that. The evidence is overwhelming. It seems like some people get confused, because they don't understand science.
 
The phrase that comes to mind is "not even wrong".

Linda
 
ponderingturtle said:
It does seem to be a real world, given denialist[sic] turns up over a hundred thousand google hits, while framantic[sic] turns up 0.

So going by useage[sic] it seems to be a real word.
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Going by frequency of use, Homeopathic medicine works as well. If a million people say something dumb, that doesn't make it true. :wackywink:
 
robinson said:
Going by frequency of use, Homeopathic medicine works as well. If a million people say something dumb, that doesn't make it true. :wackywink:
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But you see in language it does. People for some reason think that buxom means busty instead of pliant, because that is what people mean when they use it.

Also look how many non germanic words you use every day. They are all wrong because english is a germanic language.

Also email and blog I guess are not real words either.
 
Actually I was more concerned that I had the apostrophe in the wrong place. :)
 
Why so much hate from the religious left? Robinson is only asking questions, hes not raping your mom's eye-holes
 
pipelineaudio said:
Why so much hate from the religious left? Robinson is only asking questions, hes not raping your mom's eye-holes
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Where's the religious left? Where's the religious? Where's the left? This is a scientific issue we're discussing, so starting to bringing in your own political prejudices is pretty damn irrelevant.

Robinson isn't just "asking questions" either, which you'd known if you'd actually read his posts. And nobody's acting as if he's been doing any form of rape either, so that hyperbole there was also completely irrelevant.
 
pipelineaudio said:
Why so much hate from the religious left? Robinson is only asking questions, hes not raping your mom's eye-holes
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I'm not sure what the phrase "religious left" means (I'm not American).

I think "dumbfounded" is more apt than "hate".

Questions are fine. Not listening to the answers...not so much.

But that's not it either. It's that the ability to misunderstand, misinterpret, and ignore seems to grow exponentially; creating elaborate and wondrous conspiracies from the mundane. What you see is the undercurrent of envy from those who are hampered by knowledge and rationality from joining the flights of fancy. How can you be satisfied with plodding along a well-worn trail when ignorance gives you wings?

Raping your mom's eye-holes, though? You're gonna wish you'd saved that for something better.

Linda
 
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