do creationists know they are losing or not

[wakawakawaka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35fulERIUnU&list=PL935140E53256839D&index=1&feature=plcp like these videos do creationists even know what they are talking about, do they even now that there is so many problems in their thought

 

[Marduk]

no

 

[Hans]

Most of the creationist argument is denial of the evolutionary evidence. The best way to deal with creationist claims is to ask them to explain their 'theory'.

 

[Warrior1461]

Their theory is... God did it with his magic snd the bible said do.

 

[not_so_new]

....do they even now that there is so many problems in their thought?

Easy answer?




Nope....

 

[Halfcentaur]

Well, they think the world of science is a conspiracy or a religion that has relegated them to the privileged observers, trying to crack the world encompassing delusion of Darwin's demented theory. They also have that whole persecuted Christian complex you're taught to have as a Christian.

They like to think they are the scrappy noble underdog. They feel the public is behind them, as if this is Robin Hood.

 

[jj]

They aren't losing, they are winning, stone-cold outright, and are now getting themselves appointed heads of colleges, etc, in a concerted (but simply expedient) attack on the very basis of the USA itself, that being the Enlightenment and Science.

 

[DC]

thats a NephilimFree Video, his denial of evolution is one of his lesser problems. i worry more about his geocentrism.

 

[rjh01]

Most of the creationist argument is denial of the evolutionary evidence. The best way to deal with creationist claims is to ask them to explain their 'theory'.

That is what they did in the description of the Youtube. They implied a massive conspiracy to have evolution accepted.

 

[Rolfe]

There was an article in today's paper saying that US creationists were teaching kids in school that Nessie is real and disproves evolution.

Srsly. Architect started a thread on it in Current Events.

Rolfe.

 

[Warrior1461]

This is a victory in a losing war. Atheism is growing so rapidly after 911. How soon will it be before parents get irate that they are teaching the nessie crap in their child's school. Recently even in TX bunch of creationists were voted out from the school board over it.

 

[SezMe]

Evolutionism??

I don't think I've seen it characterized with that word.

 

[Old man]

I've known that Cornell geneticist for about 20 years. Watching that video saddens me.

 

[CapelDodger]

This is a victory in a losing war. Atheism is growing so rapidly after 911. How soon will it be before parents get irate that they are teaching the nessie crap in their child's school.

I agree; this is just noise and the signal is definitely towards less religiosity. In the US I suspect this is largely because creationists and their bible-bashing ilk actually put most people off religion, and set more than a few actively against it. The bigger the voice they're given the more quickly they lose ground.

Recently even in TX bunch of creationists were voted out from the school board over it.

From my reading of the religious right's history, they turned to school boards and other low-key elected bodies as a tactic when they realised that Reagan wasn't going to give them a damn thing beyond fine words. This can catch people by surprise but seldom works for more than one or two electoral cycles.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Evolutionism??

I don't think I've seen it characterized with that word.

As has already been pointed out, this is a NephelimFree video. He is probably the biggest anti-evolution geocentric absolute fundamental Christian whackjpb on the internet. If you listen to any one of his videos for too long you may feel your brain trying to escape from your skull

 

[Akuma Tennou]

I agree; this is just noise and the signal is definitely towards less religiosity. In the US I suspect this is largely because creationists and their bible-bashing ilk actually put most people off religion, and set more than a few actively against it. The bigger the voice they're given the more quickly they lose ground.

i wish i could be as optimist as you or Warrior1461
see this: gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx
i've read a lot of DOC's threads about science vs. religion here on JREF forums, and he really thinks he wins every discussion. and that's the real problem: for educated people his handwavings sure means nothing, but uneducated people will think the same way as he does; they'll think he has won. as people tend to send their kids in private schools where creation is taught (and that trend is growing even in Europe), people will become more gullible to "religious science" than they already are now. i think noone could have guessed how strong have got american fundamentalism, so i'm not sure either if one can guess if that trend will stop or spread. sadly i bet on spread

 

[Wowbagger]

It's a saw-toothed pattern. Sometimes creationism influence goes up in popular culture, sometimes it goes down. But, in general, the long-term trend is downward.

(Of course, in actual science, the trend is a very sharp cliff: Influence of creationism fell off of it ages ago. But, that's not directly relevant to my argument.)

The fact is: Evolution has always been powerful enough to change the course of Creationism, but Creationism has never been able to change anything in Evolution.

The only thing a Creationist can do is resolve cognitive dissonance into something that sounds like it is in their favor.

We are actually at a point, now, where most Creationists actually accept most of the theory of Evolution! Though, in many cases they like to call it something else.

In short, most Creationists don't quite understand that they are losing.

Everyone is making a big deal about the Loch Ness Monster thing. Yeah, I agree it's sad and stupid. But, it's not likely to make any signficant impact in these issues.

 

[CapelDodger]

i wish i could be as optimist as you or Warrior1461

I'm not a natural optimist, partly because I tend to take a long view. Things have been on the up for science and the down for religion since the Enlightenment; that's the signal but there's plenty of noise. Religions have their Revivals, their clay-footed charismatics, their outbreaks of mass hysteria, but they all pass. The same will happen to the strangely globalised resurgion of religion in political and diplomatic life over the last few decades. (Who saw that coming?!? )

Religious involvement in temporal politics always leads to popular cynicism, which is why devout clerics so often argue against it. There are already signs that repulsive politicians who wear religion on their sleeves are turning people off religion in general, especially younger people who've grown up watching it.

In some parts of the US the baseline is pretty special, places where "free-thinker" has never been meant positively, but the Enlightenment will penetrate them eventually. After the Rapture no end of carpet-baggers will descend, mark my words. Any time now ...

As to Europe, if scripture-as-textbook is growing it's from a tiny base and in the UK mostly as a missionary effort from the US, via the Tory Party majority which wants Britain to be like the US in every way. (Blair's "New" Labour wanted the same, which is where it started. Say what you like about Thatcher, and I've said a lot in my time, she was a scientist and her evil was deliberate and rational.)

i've read a lot of DOC's threads about science vs. religion here on JREF forums, and he really thinks he wins every discussion.

Such people will always be with us, but remember that a Forum such as this has a self-selecting membership. Most people don't really care about such things, especially when times are uncertain; a few have little else in their lives but the self-satisfaction they get from once again talking without listening or thinking; others use them as punch-bags to keep in shape for serious opposition

 

[CapelDodger]

We are actually at a point, now, where most Creationists actually accept most of the theory of Evolution! Though, in many cases they like to call it something else.

Most creationists are the type of people who'll shout "Hallelujah!" and shower money on the guy with good hair who's just said a load of stuff he says confirms the Bible, the whole performance taking place in a large tent with their like-minded neighbours.

The minority you're referring to actually accept that some degree of intellectual engagement with the world is normal. They are not plebs. Quite a few are perfectly good scientists in fields where there's no scriptural conflict. Others are lawyers. As believers they have the harder time of it.

In short, most Creationists don't quite understand that they are losing.

Most think a Kenyan Muslim socialist has captured the White House and still won't admit they've lost. What is it going to take to get it through to them? Young people using curse-words? Give it up, already.

Everyone is making a big deal about the Loch Ness Monster thing Yeah, I agree it's sad and stupid.

And a bit of a giggle, lets face it.

But, it's not likely to make any signficant impact in these issues.

Indeed not.

 

[keale]

i wish i could be as optimist as you or Warrior1461
see this: gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx
i've read a lot of DOC's threads about science vs. religion here on JREF forums, and he really thinks he wins every discussion. and that's the real problem: for educated people his handwavings sure means nothing, but uneducated people will think the same way as he does; they'll think he has won. as people tend to send their kids in private schools where creation is taught (and that trend is growing even in Europe), people will become more gullible to "religious science" than they already are now. i think noone could have guessed how strong have got american fundamentalism, so i'm not sure either if one can guess if that trend will stop or spread. sadly i bet on spread

In the supposedly liberal southern California theres a large community of evangelicals in Orange County that reject evolution. Im shocked at how many there are that share this belief.

I was doing carpets for a short period and over heard this lady talking with here daughter who was selecting classes to take since she was a biology major and she blew a fuse when she saw that evolutionary biology is a class her daughter needed to take. She told her "you will not take that class!!!! evolution is a lie!!!"