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DNA Tests Contradict Mormon Scripture

Wheezebucket said:
Oh shoot, you did in fact catch me on the Adam & Eve part, thank you. I almost forgot that whole early-american pilgrim thing. Lehi was the guy with the sword too, right? Some of this stuff is confusing. It was that whole warring factions in America thing that the native americans split off and eventually evolved from.

But the whole garden of Eden in America thing is accurate. Somewhere in Montana if I recall correctly?
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Correct, Adamondioman or something like that.

And the death account is over simplified, but also accurate. He and his brother, Hyrum. They were in jail over that whole Nauvoo Expositor paper scandal, and treason charges.
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Again, correct. And don't forget, he had a gun. Not quite a good martyr image though I'm not certain of the importance of that.
 
A friend of mine went to...was it Provo? Or maybe SLC? And she said when she saw the big statue of Smith, she had to laugh - he was facing the bank, with his butt pointed at the church.
 
If the garden of eden is in America, and more specifically, the United States thereof, how does one explain the following?

10: And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11: The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12: And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13: And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14: And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
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Oolon Colluphid said:
If the garden of eden is in America, and more specifically, the United States thereof, how does one explain the following?
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That information is geologically incorrect--there is no place where four rivers that fit those descriptions come together. One common explaination is that the flood messed up the rivers, but putting them in Missouri is just as believable.
 
Oolon Colluphid said:
If the garden of eden is in America, and more specifically, the United States thereof, how does one explain the following?
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God can do what ever he/she/it wants for whatever reason he/she/it wants. God changed the geography.
 
That information is geologically incorrect--there is no place where four rivers that fit those descriptions come together. One common explaination is that the flood messed up the rivers, but putting them in Missouri is just as believable.
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God can do what ever he/she/it wants for whatever reason he/she/it wants. God changed the geography.
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And that's all rather convenient, isn't it? :)
 
Oolon Colluphid said:
And that's all rather convenient, isn't it? :)
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You're catching on nicely. Faith is greater than reality. That doesn't mean the faithful abandon logic all together. Hell no, they are happy to glom on to any scientific announcement or principle that they perceive supports their faith (see second law of thermodynamics).

Logic in support of faith = good.

Logic counter to faith = (insert fallacy here)

In the interest of full disclosure the second law argument was one of my favorites when I was one of the faithful.
 
ChristineR said:
That information is geologically incorrect--there is no place where four rivers that fit those descriptions come together. One common explaination is that the flood messed up the rivers, but putting them in Missouri is just as believable.
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What I also would like to point out is that, unless the flood managed to move Ethiopia, Assyria and the river Euphrates half way round the globe (or equally 'valid', Missouri), then I would have to say that the location of eden as provided by the bible, could not be anywhere in North America. Yes, yes, god can do anything....:rolleyes:
And in any case, there exists no geological evidence to suggest that there ever was a catastrophic, global flood.
 
RandFan said:
You're catching on nicely. Faith is greater than reality. That doesn't mean the faithful abandon logic all together. Hell no, they are happy to glom on to any scientific announcement or principle that they perceive supports their faith (see second law of thermodynamics).

Logic in support of faith = good.

Logic counter to faith = (insert fallacy here)

In the interest of full disclosure the second law argument was one of my favorites when I was one of the faithful.
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If I remember correctly, the second law of thermodynamics applies to 'thermally isolated systems'. It might just turn out that the universe we inhabit is not so thermally isolated as we assume.
 
Oolon Colluphid said:
What I also would like to point out is that, unless the flood managed to move Ethiopia, Assyria and the river Euphrates half way round the globe (or equally 'valid', Missouri), then I would have to say that the location of eden as provided by the bible, could not be anywhere in North America. Yes, yes, god can do anything....:rolleyes:
And in any case, there exists no geological evidence to suggest that there ever was a catastrophic, global flood.
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This should answer all your questions. ;)

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/migration.asp
 
Oolon Colluphid said:
If I remember correctly, the second law of thermodynamics applies to 'thermally isolated systems'.
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Slight nitpick: That's not quite accurate. Rather, one of the conclusions from applying the second law of thermodynamics to a thermally isolated system is that entropy must increase. There are terms in the mathematical formulation of the second law that account for influx and outflow of entropy into a system, and these terms are zero for an isolated system.
 
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jjramsey said:
Slight nitpick: That's not quite accurate. Rather, one of the conclusions from applying the second law of thermodynamics to a thermally isolated system is that entropy must increase. There are terms in the mathematical formulation of the second law that account for influx and outflow of entropy into a system, and these terms are zero for an isolated system.
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Thanks, JJ. That's why I prefaced it with "If I remember correctly..." There's always a good chance that I don't! :o
 
Oolon Colluphid said:
If I remember correctly, the second law of thermodynamics applies to 'thermally isolated systems'. It might just turn out that the universe we inhabit is not so thermally isolated as we assume.
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Yup, I understand that now, thanks in part to forum members.
 
RandFan said:
You're catching on nicely. Faith is greater than reality. That doesn't mean the faithful abandon logic all together. Hell no, they are happy to glom on to any scientific announcement or principle that they perceive supports their faith (see second law of thermodynamics).

Logic in support of faith = good.

Logic counter to faith = (insert fallacy here)

In the interest of full disclosure the second law argument was one of my favorites when I was one of the faithful.
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I experienced a perfect example of this a few months ago, pertaining to the OP. My brother is Mormon, and was getting ready to leave on his mission, when the fundy Xian side of my family decided to make their feelings known.

They sent him a DVD explaining the why the DNA of Native Americans is a problem in Mormon scripture. So they used DNA evidence to try to disuade my brother, yet refuse to examine DNA evidence pertaining to many of us having mitochondrial DNA that can be traced back to two african females around 150,000 years ago. I guess that DNA was put there by the devil. (Along with dinosaur bones, and starlight.)
 
Oh good grief folks. Everyone who is anybody knows that the earth was just one landmass called "Turtle Island. People lived all over it until something caused the island to split into eight continents surrounded by oceans. (More than likely it was caused by a battle between "Sun Boy" and the "White Giant".) The survivors on all the continents are related because of that. Besides, white people were kicked out of America and sent packing over the Bering Strait, hundreds of thousands of years ago. They returned in the last 500 years to get revenge.
 
Interesting, though to be honest all this did was send a little shockwave through a few people. I am of the understanding that something like this happens every time some new evidence comes out against some religion or another. Based on what I've noticed before, I really don't think this will kill the Mormon faith. They'll just say that all the DNA evidence shows is they have changed "a lot" since when they first came from that tribe.
 
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