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DNA testing in the Hank Skinner case in Texas

tunnel vision again

I'm glad you choose to highlight this one particular point. As it amply illustrates how deceitful Hank Skinner and his supporters are.

There is NO bloody handprint on the trash bag. That's nothing but a shameless lie. And simply the sort of dishonesty that guilty people and their patrons resort to when the truth ain't working out so well for them.

Now, speaking of the truth: though not on the trash bag, there were indeed a number of bloody prints found throughout the crime scene that were matched to one particular individual. Care to guess who that individual is? No, I didn't think you would.
lane99,

Good to hear from you, as always. Can you find a source for your claim? Skinner's website said, "There were numerous hand-prints around the house. Two (subsequently identified as Hank's) were found, 24 inches (two feet) and 30 inches from the floor respectively, on the door to the bathroom/washer-dryer room. Leading out of the house, two hand-prints were found on and near the door leading from the kitchen to the utility room at the rear of the house; one was subsequently identified as belonging to Hank, the other was never identified, but was assumed to be his for the purposes of the trial. On the door leading outside, another print was found and identified as Hank's."

Skinner and his supporters suggested that the print investigation was half-hearted due to tunnel-vision: "From the Statement of Testimony filed by Steven C. Losch, the attorney representing Hank for his Direct Appeal, 'Unnasch believed that a search of the crime scene for latent prints that were not made in blood could have produced important evidence, but he did not collect it because the Pampa police did not ask him to do so. Unnasch was also not asked to compare appellant's handprint to the apparent latent bloody handprint that Burroughs saw on Twila Busby's left forearm.'" (highlighting mine)

From this same site: "Additionally, the Statement of testimony observes that 'There were no fingerprints on the knives, but Unnasch [Glenn Unnasch, Dept Public Safety latent fingerprint examiner] found a handprint on the black bag that was not made by the appellant [Hank Skinner]. The Pampa Police asked Department of Public Safety criminalist Gary Stallings to determine whether the brown stain on the towel ....was human blood. Stallings did not perform that test or test the knife in the bag for blood.'" If one only looks for Skinner's prints, it is not surprising that that is all one finds. Sound familiar? I thought so.

Radley Balko reported, "'They only tested the material they thought would implicate Skinner,' Protess told me via phone. 'They fixated on their suspect, and once they thought they had enough for a conviction, they stopped.'" The hair in Twila's hand did not match Skinner (tested by mitochondrial DNA forensics). If Uncle Robert's DNA turned up on the jacket, what would you conclude? If Twila's blood is on the jacket, what would you conclude? If Uncle Robert's DNA or prints turned up on the knives, what would you conclude?
 
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Windbreaker evidence missing

Evidence the Hank Skinner defense wanted DNA tested is now missing. Police can give no explanation.

"Among the key pieces of evidence never before tested, and that Skinner has sought access to for more than a decade, is a blood- and sweat-stained windbreaker found near the body of his girlfriend Twila Busby. The windbreak is now apparently missing."

http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs/news/2012-06-13/evidence-missing-in-skinner-case/
 
the missing windbreaker

Evidence the Hank Skinner defense wanted DNA tested is now missing. Police can give no explanation.

"Among the key pieces of evidence never before tested, and that Skinner has sought access to for more than a decade, is a blood- and sweat-stained windbreaker found near the body of his girlfriend Twila Busby. The windbreak is now apparently missing."

http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs/news/2012-06-13/evidence-missing-in-skinner-case/
Oh My Goodness. There are some choice words I could use to describe my feelings, but even they would be unable to really convey the revulsion I feel toward those responsible for "losing" this key piece of evidence. Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence, I suppose, but this is pushing it.
 
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knives

They lost the jacket and just noticed now?
kaosium,

Even without DNA or other forensic testing, the jacket is still a small piece of exculpatory evidence. It was identified as being like one that the uncle wore, and it has no business being there. I wonder why there are two knives. Could one of them have been used by one of Twila's sons? Both handles should be tested for DNA.
 
kaosium,

Even without DNA or other forensic testing, the jacket is still a small piece of exculpatory evidence. It was identified as being like one that the uncle wore, and it has no business being there. I wonder why there are two knives. Could one of them have been used by one of Twila's sons? Both handles should be tested for DNA.

Ah, I see they have a photograph of Robert Donnell wearing the jacket, so there's more than just that witness statement. It being there bloodied up is certainly suggestive of Donnell being there during the murder, but if they have the other DNA evidence to test the witness statement and the photograph ought to corroborate his presence as well. I also see from a closer examination that they'd noticed this years back, it was reading that just after the Supreme Court decision that it was realized it was missing didn't seem to make much sense.

Two knives, one possibly used by a son in defense?
 
Oh My Goodness. There are some choice words I could use to describe my feelings, but even they would be unable to really convey the revulsion I feel toward those responsible for "losing" this key piece of evidence. Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence, I suppose, but this is pushing it.

In any large storage system things go missing. A lot. Really all it takes is a tag to fall off or something to be put back on the wrong shelf and it might as well be gone forever. Throw in movements between archives and yeah there is a lot of missing stuff out there.

The most extreme example I'm aware of would be Hull city council who managed to lose a body for 13 years:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/06/christopher-alder-buried-wrong-person
 
When DNA as evidence came online, "common sense" said people on death row would call for it left and right. In fact, very very few did, because the vast majority of cases were solid and it would just seal their fate even more.

So when someone on death row calls for it, they should get it, because they must know they are innocent. If they know they are guilty, evidence shows they will not ask for it.

There have been a few cases where the DNA test came back posertive. But it isn't that expensive to run a test so the risk of firming up the odd conviction isn't too much of a problem.
 
That definitely needs repeating. If there is important evidence the jury (and judge) were not aware of at the original trial, how can anyone declare that that evidence wouldn't have altered their view of a case? How often in normal life do we come to what we consider a pretty certain view about something, only to find out more information and declare, "well, if I'd only known that...."?

Happens all the time. That's why the switch to the presumption of guilt at an appeal is so pernicious. There may be evidence which would have tipped the balance well into the "reasonable doubt" category when viewed with a presumption of innocence, which nevertheless is dismissed as not weighty enough to reverse the decision when viewed from a presumption of guilt. I suspect that happens quite often in appeals.

Appeals for that very reason tend towards legal technicalities so I doubt it.

The problem is that trials are seriously expensive and time consuming so appeal court judges really want to avoid there being more of them.
 
Too true. The stern-faced presumption of guilt in appeal trials is seriously frightening. Never forget that Sally Clark lost her first appeal.

If there is one tragedy that should never be forgotten in discussions like this, it's hers.

Rolfe.
 
Too true. The stern-faced presumption of guilt in appeal trials is seriously frightening. Never forget that Sally Clark lost her first appeal.

If there is one tragedy that should never be forgotten in discussions like this, it's hers.

Rolfe.

They got caught by a rogue expert witness. That probably isn't common enough to be worth designing a legal system around.
 
I seriously disagree. Look at the Amanda Knox case - that was very much contributed to by a dishonest forensic scientist. And Meadows is far from unique. Sion Jenkins was hung out to dry by David Southall, who subsequently featured quite ingloriously in the Clark saga too.

I've been an expert witness, and listened to others. I've been shocked by how frequently such people will distort the facts and the balance of opinion to try to get a "win" for their side. I've been lectured to by a Procurator Fiscal who pretty much indicated she expected it.

This is actually becoming recognised. There is now training and registration for expert witnesses. But there is still a long way to go, because the starting point was pretty much anything goes. (Fancy you can identify people by ear prints? Set yourself up as an "ear print expert" and the prosecution will call you if you say what they want to hear.) The idea that fingerprint evidence was merely "expert opinion" rather than fact is a very recent one, and it was anathema at the time of the Shirley McKie case.

In fact, I could go on an on about the problem of expert witnesses playing for the home team to an absolutely flagrant extent, but I'm going to bed now. Trust me, it's a major problem and has put away a significant number of innocent people. Even Meadow managed three with the identical technique before the fourth jury stopped and thought, "where have we heard this before...."

Rolfe.
 
forensic fraud

They got caught by a rogue expert witness. That probably isn't common enough to be worth designing a legal system around.
There are expert witnesses who seem to make a career of fraud. I am thinking of Louise Robbins and Joyce Gilchrist, among others. I seem to recall that the fire marshall who testified against Todd Willingham had investigated 1200 fires, all of which were arson, according to him.

A somewhat related problem is that of forensic personnel who tell law enforcement what they want to hear, not what the truth is. The North Carolina SBI laboratory has gone through a major overhaul after the Gregory Taylor case and a subsequent audit. It is possible t consider Duane Deaver to be a rogue agent who misreported the results of blood tests, among other things. But having read what others in the lab have had to say, I put the blame on the supervision of the lab. My solutions are to split forensic laboratories away from law enforcement and to provide indigent defendants with a forensic counsel.
 
They got caught by a rogue expert witness. That probably isn't common enough to be worth designing a legal system around.
I disagree. I've testified as an expert witness and have seen supposed experts behave in a manner that should have attracted criminal charges; in one case I called a prosecution witness a liar, while she was in the court, and went on to state why the work she'd supposedly done could not have given the results she claimed. It wasn't a matter of those particular circumstances, she had allegedly tested a scenario that simply wasn't possible.
Not long after that I was waiting to give evidence in a different case when I heard a witness (in an unrelated case, I was waiting to talk to a lawyer) state something that he either knew was a lie or demonstrated utter incompetence. I contacted the prosecution to tell them I would be giving a detailed rebuttal to defending counsel and making the matter public.
The case was abandoned that day.

The problem is most legal systems don't have any mechanism to properly verify expert testimony and to allow it to be subject to proper corroboration. And the barristers.........................
 
They lost the jacket and just noticed now?

Well, they probably couldn't notice it missing a few days ago because it wasn't missing a few days ago. :rolleyes:

Anyone wanna take that bet?
 
why the jacket was important

David Protess at the Huffington Post reports on a witness who recalls seeing the uncle wearing the jacket in question, but not after the crime.
 
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Currently Law and Justice tend to be complete strangers. Amazingly, this is coincident with conservative packed courts.
Nobody's hands are clean.

...the law signed by President Bill Clinton in 1996 that bars federal courts from overturning state convictions or sentences unless the state proceeding “resulted in a decision that was contrary to, or involved an unreasonable application of, clearly establish federal law as determined by the Supreme Court.” The law is aimed at cutting the time between sentencing and executions in capital punishment cases, and restricting the authority of federal courts to grant petitions of habeas corpus, which contend that convictions have violated federally protected rights. There are currently more than 3,500 prisoners on the nation's death row, and 627 people have been put to death since the Supreme Court reinstituted the death penalty in 1976.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/apr2000/dp-a21.shtml

The high court voted 5 to 4 that federal judges must defer to a state court decision, even one they regard as incorrect, as long as the decision was not “unreasonable.”
 

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