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"Diversity"

After the USSC upheld anti-white racial discrimination at the University of Michigan Law School and for undergraduates...

If you are referring to the Gratz case, the USSC struck *down* the use of racial quotas in admissions (no matter how many times the media incorrectly reports the opposite).

"The policy violates the Equal Protection clause."
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/02pdf/02-516.pdf

If you are talking about the Grutter case, the USSC based their decision in part on the fact that people applying for law school are not drawn from the population at large, but instead only from people with bachelor's degrees, and setting up specific requirements based on race serves a higher interest.


"the Law School's use of race in admissions decisions is not prohibited by Equal Protection clause..."
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=02-241

If you are talking about quota based affirmative action in general, the term 'anti-white' overlooks the fact that Hispanics, Asians, and other minority groups are often disadvantaged, perhaps even more so than whites by those policies.
 
Frankly, I'm all for American companies hiring nothing but American native workers - and kick all them rotten, good fer nothin' European-descended white muthas off our American soil!

Wel hoss, the problem with that is, it's uncertain who the real "natives" are. Ya see, when the 9000 old remains of Kennewick Man man were discovered in the Northwest during Bubba Clinton's administration, everyone was startled to learn he had caucasian skull features. The injuns, no fools, quickly realized the significance of this: potentially another cherished liberal/left myth would collapse, that the white man stole the indians land. And it wasn't just sentimentality about the past that was at issue, it ultimately and logically calls into question such things as the rationale for the multi-billion dollars indian casinos.

Moving into action, Bubba calls his Secretary of the Interior, Bruce "The Torch" Babbit (you remember him - they guy that burned down hundreds of houses and millions of acres of forest due to his ecolooney policies?) and has him order the scientists to turn the remains over to the indians, for a proper indian burial. Actually - snort! hee hee! - more like buryin th' evidence - know what I mean, hoss? Hyuk HYuk!!
 
If you are referring to the Gratz case, the USSC struck *down* the use of racial quotas in admissions (no matter how many times the media incorrectly reports the opposite).

I am talking about both cases. You are technically correct about them striking down the point system for admission of undergraduates, but if you think that means U of M was forbidden to discriminate against whites, you got it utterly wrong. Why do you you think minority students were dancing and cheering outside the USSC after the decision? Law school discrimination was upheld - the plaintiff in that case scored over a hundred points higher on the LSAT, but was denied admission in favor of minorities - the denial was upheld. The part you mention simply invalidates the undergraduate point system, and does not overturn what are effectively quotas. The formal point system is replaced with winks and nods and "gentlemen's agreements" by those on the various admissions committees. The admissions committees are now free to, eg, agree that being a BF trumps being a WM with 600-700 SAT scores - just don't reduce everything to a common denominator of points.

If you are talking about the Grutter case, the USSC based their decision in part on the fact that people applying for law school are not drawn from the population at large, but instead only from people with bachelor's degrees, and setting up specific requirements based on race serves a higher interest.

What O'Connor said was that "diversity" - half-assed concept if ever there was one - was a "Compelling State Interest". Think of it! A COMPELLING State Interest! What USSC justices usually cite when they want a certain result but can't find anything in the constitution to support it. The Equal Protection Clause, a version of which is inscribed in the front of the USSC building, the very heart and soul of the Constitution regarding treatment of citizens by the government, is trumped by a half-assed sociological theory! The idea is people can become better lawyers if there is a minority sitting next to them in class! Not just a good idea (which it isn't) - a COMPELLING STATE INTEREST??? And students who scored much better are turned away just so that whoever is left learns his law better because there is a minority in his class?? What
Edited by Darat: 
Edited to comply with Rule 8.
.

If you are talking about quota based affirmative action in general, the term 'anti-white' overlooks the fact that Hispanics, Asians, and other minority groups are often disadvantaged, perhaps even more so than whites by those policies.

You're partly wrong there - hispanics benefit greatly. Of course the asians get screwed - if for example UCLA, which it is well-known has a "hold down the asian admissions" policy, began accepting students on merit, the student body would be 90% asian next semester.
 
Patsie....carefull dude, you are showing your stormfront origins.

the beatup about this kennewick skeleton supposedly being a "white man" is a favourite of the white supremicist junk sites...which one did you pick it up from?
 
Patsie....carefull dude, you are showing your stormfront origins.

the beatup about this kennewick skeleton supposedly being a "white man" is a favourite of the white supremicist junk sites...which one did you pick it up from?


The U.S. National Park Service - Archeology and Ethnography Program ---- You mean to say they've been taken over by stormfront? Boy, now I see you've been right all along - stormfront is everywhere, everywhere!!! Gasp!!
 
Boeing is not exactly a sterling example of free enterprise. They are more of an example of the military industrial complex etc etc... that almost exclusively feeds at the government feeding trough. They sure aren't making all their money on commercial jets.

So the complaint is that the government puts certain hiring restrictions on their lucrative contracts ultimately paid for by we the taxpayers. I guess I'm ok with that. If Boeing were free market driven half of Boeing would be employed in China.

There's probably a Libertarian argument in here for 'if you don't like it then quit electing the same kind of people'. But then, companies like Boeing could not exist...

(no I'm not a libertarian but I once voted for one)
 
Patrick said:
The U.S. National Park Service - Archeology and Ethnography Program ---- You mean to say they've been taken over by stormfront? Boy, now I see you've been right all along - stormfront is everywhere, everywhere!!! Gasp!!

Do you actually have a source this time, or are we to be treated to your 'memory' again?
 
Surprise, surpise, Patrick is full of crap.

Biological Affinity
Determinations of biological affinity were made using both objective and subjective approaches. In the former case, multivariate analyses were used to generate probabilities of group membership, while in the latter case comparisons were made to known patterns of discrete morphological variation among extant forensic samples in the U.S. Two caveats should be emphasized in the interpretation of the bioaffinity results. First, the Kennewick research team was charged with determining whether the remains were those of a Native American individual; although the federal statute is somewhat ambiguous as to how the term "Native American" is defined, we took this as indicating a modern or recent human population indigenous to the Americas. Based on this goal, we derived the following hypotheses:

H0: Kennewick represents an individual drawn from a population of recent (late Holocene) Native Americans

HA: Kennewick does not represent an individual drawn from a population of recent Native Americans.

The method for examining these hypotheses is drawn from logical empiricism, so that any null hypothesis can only be rejected, but can never be proven to be true. It may be possible to exclude Kennewick from membership in the Native American comparative samples used in the following analyses, but it is not possible to prove that Kennewick is, in fact Native American (i.e., prove the null hypothesis to be true). Secondly, the ability to properly allocate prehistoric remains to a particular population or race depends, in large part, on whether the comparative samples are representative of the population from which the unknown person is drawn, and on the assumption that the such reference groups existed in the distant past. The use of typicality probabilities provides a statistical measure of association and group membership that does not assume that the individual examined is drawn from one of the comparative samples. Finally, it is important to recognize that the Kennewick remains may be thousands of years older than any of the reference samples used in these comparisons. Unless morphological "types" extend far into the past, it may be difficult to place the Kennewick remains into any late Holocene sample used for comparison.

Powell has already noted (Powell 1995; Powell and Neves n.d.; Steele and Powell 1992, 1994) that the geographic groupings or races seen among modern peoples are at best fuzzy and at worst non-existent when examining late Pleistocene and early Holocene populations world-wide. This point has also been noted by Kamminga and Wright (1988) in their analysis of the late Pleistocene skeleton from Upper Cave, Zhoukoudien, China. Thus it is possible that the term "Native American," when used in a biological context, is irrelevant when applied to ancient human remains because founder populations did not exhibit the pattern of morphological and metric variation seen among late Holocene populations in the Americas. However, such a situation does not completely rule out the possibility that these ancient remains might be biologically ancestral to modern American Indian populations (see Powell 1997; Powell in press, and Powell and Neves for data supporting this view). Much of the interpretation of the biological affinity of Kennewick results depends on subjective opinions and assumptions about the rate of morphological change possible during the past 10,000 years, the underlying genetics of the traits examined, and the demographic history of early and late Holocene humans in the New World.

Because the bulk of the skeletal reference samples are of late Holocene (modern) age, the comparisons using these reference groups do not allow us to evaluate the biological similarity of the Kennewick remains to ancient populations in the Americas, particularly to other skeletons of early and middle Holocene age. Because of the small number of Paleoindian and Archaic period skeletal series available for comparison, these results are not as definitive. However, they do provide an assessment of overall morphological similarity and dissimilarity between contemporaneous human groups present in the Americas from 9,000 to 5,000 years before present.

If the Kennewick remains represent a member of a founding population whose descendants evolved in situ over the past 9,000 years, North and South American populations who appear later in time may be dissimilar to the founder population due to the cumulative effects of genetic drift, mutation, and natural selection over time. An alternative explanation is that the Kennewick remains represent an individual with no living descendants among modern American Indians. Human skeletons from the middle and late Archaic periods (8,000 1,900 yr B.P.) represent the temporally adjacent sample for comparison with Kennewick, for testing the following hypotheses:

H0: Kennewick represents an individual drawn from a population of Archaic (middle Holocene) Native Americans

HA: Kennewick does not represent an individual drawn from a population of Archaic Native Americans.

This set of hypotheses allowed us to examine the possibility that the remains are unlike modern American Indians, yet similar to temporally adjacent Archaic populations in the New World. To test the null hypothesis, we collected craniometric data for 13 skeletal series dating to the Archaic period (8,000 - 1,900 yr B.P.) in North America. One caveat should be noted: even if there is a strong similarity of between Archaic groups and the Kennewick remains, this does not necessarily provide evidence to support or refute a connection to later American Indian populations. Only a time series analysis of populations from the Plateau region, extending from earliest occupation to the historic period, can provide a statistically valid means of assessing morphometric continuity of populations through time. Data for performing such an analysis are currently unavailable.

In other words, we don't know one way or the other. Interestingly enough for the purposes of the NAGPRA act (sorry of the tautology, but it just feels to wierd to type 'the NAGPRA') the remains are considered to be, you guessed it, Native American.
 
So, Patty, you have any other wild racist commentaries to try to lay false claim to this land as the New Reich?

Put up or shut up.

It's bad enough I have to put up with 7/8 of my heritage to be foreign. Now to have some euro-trash descended geek claim that the native eighth doesn't belong here any more than the rest?

Of course, when you get right down to it, Patty-Ann, we're all of us of the exact same descendancy. We all of us came from the Fertile Crescent, didn't we?

Typical racist crap.
 
The Fool said:
Patsie....carefull dude, you are showing your stormfront origins.

the beatup about this kennewick skeleton supposedly being a "white man" is a favourite of the white supremicist junk sites...which one did you pick it up from?

Not Stormfront, Left Watch

For Example...

Patrick, Michael Savage (or "Dr. Savage" as you probably refer to him) called, he wants his vitriol back.
 
Patrick said:
After the USSC upheld anti-white racial discrimination at the University of Michigan Law School and for undergraduates, corporate america, the newest pillar in the liberal/left establishment, took their cue with lightning speed and began chanting the "diversity" mantra. If you go to almost any corporate website and click on "employment", you can read some version of the "diversity" theology, usually a tortured, illogical paragraph full of Orwellian language and self contradiction all the way down to the sentence level. For example, Boeing:

"At Boeing, we are committed to diversity, equal employment opportunity, and affirmative action."

Equivalent logically to

"At Boeing, we are committed to promiscuity, virginity, and rape." :)
Mmmm... That you, Jedi Knight?

:rolleyes:

Hans
 
"You're partly wrong there - hispanics benefit greatly. Of course the asians get screwed - if for example UCLA, which it is well-known has a "hold down the asian admissions" policy, began accepting students on merit, the student body would be 90% asian next semester."

I'll have to disagree that Hispanics benefit greatly by being denied admission to schools when they have outscored other candidates.
But I may be biased, being Hispanic, and having been denied admission because of such a quota system...
 
Let's be honest.

thaiboxerken said:
Are you saying that diversity is a bad thing or just that it's bad for a company to state that they want diversity?

Let's be honest. We all know that "diversity" is a code word for preferential treatment for certain groups. I don't care if companies want to do that, but just don't pretend that it is anything other than what it is.
 
Patrick said:
the plaintiff in that case scored over a hundred points higher on the LSAT, but was denied admission in favor of minorities - the denial was upheld.

I'd be upset, too, if I were denied admission after scoring 100 points higher than someone who was accepted, considering the test scores are 120 minimum and 180 maximum.
 
Don't get me wrong - I'm against the quota system and the whole 'affirmative action' nonsense. But there is a lot to be said for diversification. Though, preferably, we should be looking at the cultural and social aspects of each candidate, rather than their race.

A white person raised in a predominantly black neighborhood, for example, could very easily bring the 'black POV' to an employer. An oriental raised among hispanics would likewise be able to offer the hispanic POV. Two Indians, one raised wealthy in an upscale neighborhood, and the other raised in poverty, offer completely unique experiences from each other. But how many employers want to go over the childhood and adolescence of every prospective new employee? And, can you imagine the discussions? "Yeah, we need 21 more poor-childhood daddy-abused folks in the manufacturing department, and 2 sexually-abused middle-upper class with Thai social experience for accounting." Eeek.

Frankly, diversification policies are a rather handicapped measure for improving a company - Maybe the most practical available - but I personally think that diversification policies should take the back seat to actual qualifications. Let race or gender quotas come in AFTER you have two or more equally qualified candidates for a post. And since you rarely ever have equally qualified candidates, it's gonna be a quiet back seat.
 
zaayrdragon said:
Don't get me wrong - I'm against the quota system and the whole 'affirmative action' nonsense. But there is a lot to be said for diversification. Though, preferably, we should be looking at the cultural and social aspects of each candidate, rather than their race.

Which goes to show that a good idea becomes unworkable when carried out to its logical conclusion. You simply can't sit down and work out a point system that fairly assesses diversity -- the discussions are plainly ridiculous. Which is more diverse: a minority-raced person from an affluent background, or a majority-raced person from an impoverished background? What if one of them is gay and the other has a physical handicap? And what if the region you're in has a majority of what is nationally a minority? Does that come into play?

Diversity is a nice idea, but it's impossible to impose it. I think if everyone stopped trying, it would simply happen naturally.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Diversity is a nice idea, but it's impossible to impose it. I think if everyone stopped trying, it would simply happen naturally.

I'm not quite sure if the 'demons' of segregation can be pointed out without active involvement. US has been strugling with it since it's beginning. And we are supposed to be the most free and equal country in the world.
 
A major problem with "diversity" is that, by it's nature, a group has to be identified which will contribute to "diversity". As such it seems to me to increase the feeling of us vs. them. And of course, hearing about a diversity program that increases the number of Orthodox Jews is sorta rare. I think that it is an insulting sop to Blacks. Then again, it is not clear that white liberals particularly like blacks.
 
daenku32 said:
I'm not quite sure if the 'demons' of segregation can be pointed out without active involvement. US has been strugling with it since it's beginning. And we are supposed to be the most free and equal country in the world.

Ah, but there we run up against TragicMonkey's First Rule of Understanding Human Behavior: "People suck." The people who hold dreadful opinions are not going to change, no matter how many "diversity seminars" they attend--it just reinforces their beliefs. I think the only course is to make sure discrimination is illegal, and hope that over time people will get more sensible.

One of the problems is that the biases shift over time. A hundred years ago they were still discriminating against the Irish and the Jews. Now that they're slowly getting away from discriminating on skin color, they're doing it based on sexual orientation, age, physical shape, and whether you smoke or not. When those are all accepted, it'll be something else. Sigh.
 
So the complaint is that the government puts certain hiring restrictions on their lucrative contracts ultimately paid for by we the taxpayers. I guess I'm ok with that. If Boeing were free market driven half of Boeing would be employed in China.

I don't know about the half in China part, but our government itself functions under the constraints of the Constitution, including the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment, forbidding the racial discrimination policies imposed on Boeing and many other companies by the government. Of course, as I said, the Olympianist supreme court judges have appallingly wiped away with the stroke of a pen what was left of that all-important protection in the U of M cases.

There's probably a Libertarian argument in here for 'if you don't like it then quit electing the same kind of people'. But then, companies like Boeing could not exist...

In a libertarian polity, a company that engaged in racial discrimination would soon go out of business, driven there by market forces.
 

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