PHP:
This is a good example of a bad post, at least as far as posts in a forum devoted to skepticism go. The poster makes several claims, but offers up very few details to clarify just what is being claimed. Who, for example, were the progressives who said fascism was good and was going to save the world? Who were the musicians, what were the songs?
Nor does the poster provide details on why s/he believes the things asserted in the post. For instance:
(A) Are these things which the poster believes due to personal knowledge -- for instance, if theprestige lived through the 1930s and is recounting things s/he remembers? While memories can be (and often are) unreliable, that would be evidence worth considering (although, as skeptics, we'd want to check the memories against the records of the time).
(B) Are these things which the poster believes due to reading the writings of various 1930s progressives, such as Bob LaFollette, and finding passages praising fascism in these writings? If so, those would be primary sources and a strong form of evidence in support of the claim (although in that case it would be good for theprestige to provide the page numbers and titles of the books in which s/he found the quotes, to make it possible for others to 'peer review' theprestige's research and verify that theprestige has quoted fairly and accurately.)
(C) Are these things which the poster believes due to reading newspaper stories from the 1930s (available on microfilm at some libraries, or online in some newspapers' archives) in which various Progressives are quoted making statements praising fascism? Those would also be primary sources and strong evidence in support of the claim (although, again, it would be good for theprestige to provide the dates, page numbers, and names of the newspapers in which these stories can be found.)
(D) Are these things which the poster believes due to reading a history book about the Progressive movement which made the claim that Progressives in the 1930 supported fascism? In that case, we would need to know what evidence the writer of the book was relying on when they made the claims which are being passing on. Depending on the reliability of the writer, this could be strong evidence in support of the claim. Again, what we would need is the book title and page numbers (or newspaper title, date, and page numbers) on which the book-writer claims that relevant quotes can be found so that these can be checked and verified.
(E) Are these things which the poster believes due to reading some newspaper column, magazine article, blog post, or other bit of writing by someone who had not actually looked up or based their piece on primary sources and was more interested in promoting a particular viewpoint than in presenting an accurate picture? That would be extremely weak evidence, and not something a skeptic would give much weight to.
Two posters in the thread where theprestige made these claims promptly requested that theprestige provide evidence. But the thread quickly moved on to other points, and the requests got buried under the mass of other posts.
It would be nice if the evidence in support of the claims could have been posted in the thread in which the claims were made. But really, the claim that there was widespread support for fascism in the Progressive movement is a separate topic from the one that thread was started to discuss. Therefore I am starting this thread to provide theprestige (or anyone else who is interested) an opportunity to provide evidence in support of the claim that Progressives in the 1930s were significant supporters of fascism.
From the fact that theprestige has failed to provide this evidence in the week since it was requested, I suspect that this is not a subject theprestige has actually researched from primary sources yet. If I had to guess a reason for the poster's belief in the claims presented, I would go with (E). So I'd like to be helpful and provide a relatively simple way theprestige can find the evidence to support the claim that the Progressive movement supported fascism -- if that claim actually is true.
From the 1950s to the present, the National Review has been a good source for conservative opinion. While the conservative movement is not monolithic, any opinion or belief which was widespread in the conservative movement is likely to be found in its pages. If someone claimed that conservatives in the 1950s and 1960s were strong supporters of Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement, I would ask them to provide me with examples of conservatives having expressed such sentiments; and if they provided me a number of citations of articles in National Review where this kind of support was expressed, I would accept that as good evidence they were correct. National Review has generally been regarded as a journal of record of the conservative movement in the US.
From the 1850s to the present The Nation has been a good source for liberal opinion. If someone claimed that liberals in the 1960s were supporters of Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement, I would ask them to provide me with examples of liberals expressing such support; and if they provided me with a number of citations to articles in The Nation where this kind of support was expressed, I would accept that as good evidence they were correct. The Nation has generally been regarded as a journal of record of the liberal movement in the US.
Perhaps a little less well-known than those two magazines, The Progressive is a good source for finding the published opinions of people in the Progressive movement. Since its founding in 1909, The Progressive has generally been regarded as a journal of record of the Progressive movement in the US.
If it is indeed true, as theprestige asserts, that progressives in the 1930s spoke highly of fascism, there should be numerous items from issues of The Progressive in that time period which theprestige can cite as examples. As someone who enjoys learning new things, I look forward to seeing these citations.
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