Did Epstein run a World Satanic Ring?

[Craig4]

Holup. I thought he was a Satanist? How can you be an atheist Satanist?

Atheism, bad; pedophilia bad; psychopaths bad. Pedophiles must be atheist psychopaths because, um...reasons.

 

[EHocking]

The only thing moving faster than the goalposts in this thread is the ISS.

I can’t work out where the outlandish CTer fantasy ends and the Poe begins anymore.

 

[BStrong]

Fundamentalist christian claptrap propaganda isn't noted for accuracy.

Facts in evidence:

https://churchpop.com/2014/08/18/how-the-famous-sell-their-soul-to-satan/

Sadly, this rise to fame mirrors many, mostly female starlets, who quickly gained fame and fortune by selling their souls. Case in point, in a rather horrific interview, would-be Christian-pop superstar turned “I Kissed a Girl” singer Katy Perry said: “When I was 15, because I grew up in a household where all I ever did was listen to gospel music…. I swear I wanted to be, like, the Amy Grant of music, but it didn’t work out, and so I sold my soul to the devil.”

What many, who have never been inside the entertainment industry, do not understand is that every performer comes to a certain juncture when they have to make a decision between selling their soul and becoming famous or keeping it and slipping back into obscurity. One of the most well-known early examples was when 1950s blonde-bombshell Jayne Mansfield, whose career was going nowhere, decided to take her bikini top off in front of eager photographers while she was among a cadre of unknown pin-ups promoting a Jane Russell film. After that, studios lined-up to sign her.

 

[Vixen]

At some point, you really are going to have to produce some evidence for these claims.
In the meantime, please don't change my posts to repeat your own wild and unsupported speculations.
I notice, though that you appear to have no issue with the idea that someone can be a Jewish atheist Satanist who invoked gods from another pantheon. Do your favoured meanings of 'Jewish' and 'atheist' come from the same Bumper Book of Made-Up Stuff that you've been using for your definition of Satanist, or is there another explanation for your wilful and repeated misuse of these terms?

I have met lots of Jewish atheists. There is no anomaly there. My previous boss honoured all the Jewish traditions and holidays, sent his kids to kibbutzes and supported Zionist organisations. Yet he happily told me he was atheist. No different from Anglican Brits who'll go to church for hatching, matching and dispatching yet bear an uncanny resemblance to agnostics and atheists. It's more to do with cultural identity than religious belief. I see no anomaly or insult.

 

[Vixen]

This thread really going 16 pages?

Really, I mean people have tacked the "satanic" label on to almost anything taboo these days.

Why couldn't he just be a modern day harem keeper like old rich corrupt monarchs, sultans, emperors etc. in history? Epstein was basically that.

As far as maps and imagery, you're seeing things.

It wasn't a harem. That's for sure. It now seems Epstein set up a trust fund for the daughter of an ex-girlfriend whom he must have befriended when she was under eighteen. He wanted to marry is ex-girlfriend's daughter and put $50m into this fund. I think we can put two and two together.

The mistake you keep making is that all these teenage girls was for Epstein's own personal use, being Mr Rich Guy, when what people keep missing is that he was procuring these girls for a vast powerful anonymous clientele and protected from prosecution.

Les Wexner is a very rich guy but there is no way that was the source of Epstein's riches. As he was a mediocre character in many ways the large sums point to foreign country intelligence funding.

 

[Vixen]

When the OP resorts to the JAQ gambit and has no actual evidence to cite it's usually the case.

Care to answer my question about Crossroads Blues? As in where RJ states he sold his soul for musical talent?

Here's the lyrics:

I went to the crossroad, fell down on my knees
I went to the crossroad, fell down on my knees
Asked the Lord above "Have mercy, now save poor Bob, if you please"

Yeoo, standin' at the crossroad, tried to flag a ride
Ooo eeee, I tried to flag a ride
Didn't nobody seem to know me, babe, everybody pass me by

Standin' at the crossroad, baby, risin' sun goin' down
Standin' at the crossroad, baby, eee, eee, risin' sun goin' down
I believe to my soul, now, poor Bob is sinkin' down

You can run, you can run, tell my friend Willie Brown
You can run, you can run, tell my friend Willie Brown
That I got the crossroad blues this mornin', Lord, babe, I'm sinkin' down

And I went to the crossroad, mama, I looked east and west
I went to the crossroad, baby, I looked east and west
Lord, I didn't have no sweet woman, ooh well, babe, in my distress

The sun sinking down (= darkness is the domain of the wicked one)
Looking east and west (= clear occult symbolism here. Sun rises in the east sets in the west)
Standing at the crossroads (in the dusk)
Fell down on my knees (= position of worship)
Nobody seemed to know me (= invisible, like a ghost)
You can run, you can run, tell my friend (= people run to convey urgent news)
Got the crossroad blues this morning...I'm sinking down (= falling as a metaphor for the fall of a soul, the sinking down can be seen as a metaphor for depression or a fall from grace).

So at the crossroads we see Robert ('Bob') on his knees in the twilight, the traditional portal for entry into the nether world. He believes his soul is in danger and prays to the 'Lord' 'have mercy now, save poor Bob'.

The story I am familiar with is that one of his friends had done the same can't remember now if the reference to Willie Brown.

The theme of being marked by the devil continues in 'Hellhound on my Trail':

I got to keep movin', I got to keep movin'
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail
Umm mmm mmm mmm
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail
And the days keeps on worryin' me
There's a hellhound on my trail, hellhound on my trail
Hellhound on my trail'

Then there's 'Me and the Devil Blues':

Early this mornin'
When you knocked upon my door
Early this mornin' whoooo
When you knocked upon my door
And I said 'hello Satan'
I believe it's time to go

Me and the Devil
Was walkin' side by side
Me and the Devil, whoooo
Was walkin' side by side
And I'm going to beat my woman
Until I get satisfied

She said you don't see why
That I would dog her 'round
Now baby you know you ain't doin' me right don'tcha
She say you don't see why, whoooo
That I would dog her 'round
It must-a be that old evil spirit
So deep down in the ground

You may bury my body
Down by the highway side
Baby, I don't care where you bury my body when I'm dead and gone
You may bury my body, whoooo
Down by the highway side
So my old evil spirit
Can get a Greyhound bus and ride

This indicates he had sold his sold to the devil and now the devil wanted his dues.

 

[Vixen]

And you know this how?

Putting together a criminal enterprise is hard enough on it's own. Bringing in Satanists is a huge risk because if someone believes in Satan and feels like Satan should be worshiped that person has a few screw loose, lacks maturity, judgement, and common sense. Why risk a billion dollar operation by bringing in nutjobs who believe in and worship the devil?

As a guy who has been a customer of a few strip clubs in Las Vegas I admit I can't remember anything about the decor, what if anything was hanging on the walls, and for all I know I probably left those places with a "Kick Me" sign taped to the back of my shirt. I'm fairly certain Epstein hit those same clubs when he was in town, and I doubt his decor represented anything more than a rich guy wanting to add style to his place.

Oh, and the Daily Mail has new photos from his New Mexico estate:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...iuffre-Jeffrey-Epsteins-New-Mexico-ranch.html

Zorro Ranch indeed. his clip from wiki says:

Diego [=alter ego: Zorro] is usually shown living with his father in a huge hacienda, which contains a number of secret passages and tunnels, leading to a secret cave that serves as headquarters for Zorro's operations and as [his horse] Tornado's hiding place.

In popular culture the fictitious Zorro, who was a Spaniard who lived in North California int he 18th Century, was the first Robin Hood-style figure (as a rich guy fighting injustice in his alter world) to wear an all-black costume with a black mask.

As the furnishings at Zorro Ranch seem to be in Mexican (?) style one wonders whether Epstein's society parties were also themed on Zorro: effete foppish dandies (Prince Andrew) and heroes wearing masks and waving rapiers (Clinton?).

 

[Vixen]

Uhhh wait a minute. Firstly, are you implying that men who had paedophile urges decided to go through the rigmarole, complexity and time-sink of training for ordination as a priest.... in order ultimately to be able to get into positions of trust and solitude with young boys/girls?*

And secondly (but related to the first point), are you suggesting that men who were "not sincere Christians" went through the rigmarole, complexity and time-sink of training for ordination as a priest? Does the word "hypocrisy" not mean anything to you? And if we're talking of things the New Testament "doesn't like".... do you think that (just for example) gay priests/vicars are "hardly sincere Christians"? Or, for that matter, female priests/vicars?


* rather than, for example, just signing up to be a scout master or youth club leader or something

Good point.

ETA: I would say however, many of the ordained pastors/priests I know of had a parent who was also a clergyman. I know one who comes from a line of at least four. IOW going into the clergy was often a routine means of entering a profession, rather like going into medicine or law. Many end up there as a nice middle class career. No great Christian faith is necessarily there although it's a prerequisite to commit to it.

 

[Vixen]

Firstly, what the heck has Savile's "musical taste" got to do with his talent (or otherwise) as a DJ?







What?? Do you think that show got handed to him on a golden platter out of thin air or something? Do you have any idea how shows like his ended up getting commissioned? And do you think that someone like Bob Harris was automatically somehow a more talented broadcaster simply because he presented OGWT?






Oh here we go again. I mean, all of this is borne of ignorance, but just to take that last part as an example: did this couple "come forward" to police or other authorities a) while Savile was alive, and b) with credible evidence to support their claim (or with enough information for the police to find credible evidence themselves)?

People did complain, especially at the BBC and were told to not make a fuss. In fact there is one episode of TOTP which was broadcast live, in which a woman standing near him suddenly jumps in the air. 'Jimmy' actually sexually assaulted her live on air!

 

[Venom]

It wasn't a harem. That's for sure. It now seems Epstein set up a trust fund for the daughter of an ex-girlfriend whom he must have befriended when she was under eighteen. He wanted to marry is ex-girlfriend's daughter and put $50m into this fund. I think we can put two and two together.

The mistake you keep making is that all these teenage girls was for Epstein's own personal use, being Mr Rich Guy, when what people keep missing is that he was procuring these girls for a vast powerful anonymous clientele and protected from prosecution.

Les Wexner is a very rich guy but there is no way that was the source of Epstein's riches. As he was a mediocre character in many ways the large sums point to foreign country intelligence funding.

Right, he was a sex trafficker.

Where does the "Satanic ring" come into play? It's powerful men doing what they can get away with. I suspect a lot of Epstein's so called clients are people he's just sweet talking in business deals, certainly there are some there for the more illicit services, but I bet it's not as many as the "Epstein contact list!!" suggests.

 

[abaddon]

The sun sinking down (= darkness is the domain of the wicked one)

And mice, owls, bats, shift workers, etc, etc, etc

Looking east and west (= clear occult symbolism here. Sun rises in the east sets in the west)

That is an observation of fact, not an occult symbol.

Standing at the crossroads (in the dusk)
Fell down on my knees (= position of worship)[/QUOTE}Or exhaustion, or tying a shoelace or searching for something under your couch, etc, etc,etc

Nobody seemed to know me (= invisible, like a ghost)

WTAF? Ever travellrd to anywhere that nobody knew you?

You can run, you can run, tell my friend (= people run to convey urgent news)

Or in the Olympics or any sport, or for health, or to catch a train, etc, etc, etc

Got the crossroad blues this morning...I'm sinking down (= falling as a metaphor for the fall of a soul, the sinking down can be seen as a metaphor for depression or a fall from grace).

Or depression, despair, disappointment, etc, etc, etc

So at the crossroads we see Robert ('Bob') on his knees in the twilight, the traditional portal for entry into the nether world. He believes his soul is in danger and prays to the 'Lord' 'have mercy now, save poor Bob'.

No such thing as a "nether world". Twilight happens twice a day, every day naturally.

You are simply making crap up to indulge your personal belief in ugly superstitions.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

At some point, you really are going to have to produce some evidence for these claims.
In the meantime, please don't change my posts to repeat your own wild and unsupported speculations.
I notice, though that you appear to have no issue with the idea that someone can be a Jewish atheist Satanist who invoked gods from another pantheon. Do your favoured meanings of 'Jewish' and 'atheist' come from the same Bumper Book of Made-Up Stuff that you've been using for your definition of Satanist, or is there another explanation for your wilful and repeated misuse of these terms?

I have met lots of Jewish atheists. There is no anomaly there. My previous boss honoured all the Jewish traditions and holidays, sent his kids to kibbutzes and supported Zionist organisations. Yet he happily told me he was atheist. No different from Anglican Brits who'll go to church for hatching, matching and dispatching yet bear an uncanny resemblance to agnostics and atheists. It's more to do with cultural identity than religious belief. I see no anomaly or insult.

I see. This must have come from The Bumper Book of Made-Up Stuff's Appendix A- "Useful Anecdotes". This may very well be true, but it does not explain the contradiction of being simultaneously a believer and a non-believer, not does it explain the even greater contradiction of being a non-believer in deities who believes in a whole pantheon of such beings, which is what you are claiming about Epstein.
If we look back at your posts on this subject, we can see how you have talked yourself into this opinion that Epstein was a Jewish atheist:

The perception has arisen because names such as Bill Clinton, Donald Trump and of course, Prince Andrew have all been associated with Epstein, who himself is presumably Jewish, having complained of anti-Semitism in his dealings with the authorities.

No, that is not the subtext at all. Epstein was Jewish but I wouldn't be surprised he was atheist even if he did observe family Judaic traditions. I doubt he believed in Ba'al or any of the ancient Egyptian gods so beloved of the occult sects. However, it was a good instrument to bring the pervy powerful men of the world together, by offering 'Eyes Wide Shut' style wild orgiastic parties with no questions asked and immunity from prosecution or restrictions.

He goes from 'presumably Jewish' to 'Jewish' to 'Jewish atheist', all without any hint of evidence.
Now, if you are going to assert that Epstein's Jewishness was a cultural, not a religious or ethnic thing, then I have to ask why you think it is relevant?
Moreover, if Epstein was an atheist, then how do you explain his apparent belief in numerous gods? Do you have any useful anecdotes about atheists you know who happily summon Ba'al at the weekend? When you say 'atheist', what exactly do you mean?
Finally, because I'm not quite blue in the face enough, I'm going to repeat my request for evidence for any or all of your claims. I notice, for example, that you've gone very quiet about the baby bones the FBI supposedly found strewn about the island. Had any luck finding a reliable source for that one?

 

[Vixen]

And mice, owls, bats, shift workers, etc, etc, etc
That is an observation of fact, not an occult symbol.

Standing at the crossroads (in the dusk)
Fell down on my knees (= position of worship)[/QUOTE}Or exhaustion, or tying a shoelace or searching for something under your couch, etc, etc,etc
WTAF? Ever travellrd to anywhere that nobody knew you?
Or in the Olympics or any sport, or for health, or to catch a train, etc, etc, etc
Or depression, despair, disappointment, etc, etc, etc

No such thing as a "nether world". Twilight happens twice a day, every day naturally.

You are simply making crap up to indulge your personal belief in ugly superstitions.

You can scoff but we rock fans know the truth.

 

[Vixen]

I see. This must have come from The Bumper Book of Made-Up Stuff's Appendix A- "Useful Anecdotes". This may very well be true, but it does not explain the contradiction of being simultaneously a believer and a non-believer, not does it explain the even greater contradiction of being a non-believer in deities who believes in a whole pantheon of such beings, which is what you are claiming about Epstein.
If we look back at your posts on this subject, we can see how you have talked yourself into this opinion that Epstein was a Jewish atheist:





He goes from 'presumably Jewish' to 'Jewish' to 'Jewish atheist', all without any hint of evidence.
Now, if you are going to assert that Epstein's Jewishness was a cultural, not a religious or ethnic thing, then I have to ask why you think it is relevant?
Moreover, if Epstein was an atheist, then how do you explain his apparent belief in numerous gods? Do you have any useful anecdotes about atheists you know who happily summon Ba'al at the weekend? When you say 'atheist', what exactly do you mean?
Finally, because I'm not quite blue in the face enough, I'm going to repeat my request for evidence for any or all of your claims. I notice, for example, that you've gone very quiet about the baby bones the FBI supposedly found strewn about the island. Had any luck finding a reliable source for that one?

Massive cover up. Where are the hundreds of young teenage girls we know Epstein procured. Not even he could manage more than say three or four a day. His making baby plans. Where are all these babies? It's claimed it never happened yet what easier way for a vulnerable runaway form a trailer park (which is where he seems to have sourced many of them) to make big money in exchange for being a surrogate, as it were. Even with contraception and abortion there would have been pregnancies arising from all of this rampant promiscuity. Only nine of these women have come forward so what has happened to all the rest of them, many of whom would not have had worried relatives to care enough or even know they were missing. Virginia Guiffre claims Epstein and Maxwell wanted her to sign a contract giving up all rights to a baby to be sired by him. She doesn't say if this happened or not but what was to happen to these babies at birth? Think about it.

Ignoring it or denying it doesn't make it not so.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Ignoring it or denying it doesn't make it not so.

Ignoring your utter lack of evidence doesn't make your allegation of 'satanism' credible.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Massive cover up. Where are the hundreds of young teenage girls we know Epstein procured.

How many do you know Epstein procured?

How many of those are known to be missing or unaccounted for, rather than just anonymous?

 

[Vixen]

Interesting article here, comparing and contrasting the treatment of Roger Stone to that of Jeffrey Epstein:

Some will recall Stone was convicted of perjury amongst other things:

Roger Stone was recently convicted in federal court on seven felony charges, stemming from the since-closed Russian collusion investigation. Stone’s main crime was lying to Congress about who he had, or had not, spoken to about Russia.

<snip>

Official Washington cheered. “Rot in hell!” they screamed on Twitter. What’s interesting about the response to Stone’s case — both from federal prosecutors and the conventional media — is how much harsher it was than anything that greeted convicted child molester Jeffrey Epstein. When Epstein was released from his first prison term, he hosted a dinner at his home with ABC News host George Stephanopoulos, former NBC host Katie Couric, Chelsea Handler, Woody Allen, CBS’s Charlie Rose, British Prince Andrew and many others. Do you think Stephanopoulos would consider having dinner at Stone’s house? Of course not. That would be immoral. FBI officials, apparently, agree.

There was a huge live media presence when Stone was arrested, together with armed police and helicopters.

Dozens of federal agents with automatic weapons, armored vehicles and a helicopter descended on his home in a middle-class part of Fort Lauderdale and rousted the 66-year-old and his wife from bed at rifle point. Just to make sure the event inflicted maximum humiliation, the feds tipped off CNN, which was there to capture the whole thing live.

So compare and contrast that with Epstein:

Epstein, by contrast, was accused of molesting at least 34 separate underage girls. How was he arrested? He wasn’t. According to The New York Times account, prosecutors called Epstein’s lawyers and asked him to turn himself in, which Epstein politely did. Nobody tipped off CNN. Just the opposite. Authorities tried to keep the whole thing secret, to preserve Epstein’s dignity. One prosecutor wrote to Epstein’s longtime attorney, former Bush administration senior official Jay Lefkowitz, assuring him that to “avoid the press,” she could, “file the charge in district court in Miami, which will hopefully cut the press coverage significantly.”

Pretty thoughtful treatment for a child molester. Ultimately, Epstein got a plea deal and all federal charges against him were dropped. The arrangement was kept secret even from Epstein’s victims, so they wouldn’t be able to complain or contest the agreement in court.

Amazing difference in treatment, huh?

 

[Vixen]

How many do you know Epstein procured?

How many of those are known to be missing or unaccounted for, rather than just anonymous?

Jimmy Saville died aged 84 and is stated by the police to have molested, raped and sexually abused at least 300 known victims.

Epstein died aged 66 thirty-four victims were listed in his indictment (for which he served a light mostly out of jail time of 13 months). As Virginia and Chantae said they procured at least fifty each of their own friends for Epstein, then it is fair to assume the figure runs into many dozens more, possibly hundreds, than are known about.

First comes denial.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I have met lots of Jewish atheists. There is no anomaly there. My previous boss honoured all the Jewish traditions and holidays, sent his kids to kibbutzes and supported Zionist organisations. Yet he happily told me he was atheist. No different from Anglican Brits who'll go to church for hatching, matching and dispatching yet bear an uncanny resemblance to agnostics and atheists. It's more to do with cultural identity than religious belief. I see no anomaly or insult.

There's a big difference between being ethnically or culturally Jewish, and being a practicing believer of the Jewish religion. Are you suggesting that someone could be an atheist, yet observe Satanism culturally in the same way that an atheist might observe Christian practices like Christmas, or attending Christian weddings and funerals in churches? The idea that someone could be an atheist, yet participate in Satanic activities he doesn't believe in out of cultural habit or a sense of family obligation is just silly.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Atheism, bad; pedophilia bad; psychopaths bad. Pedophiles must be atheist psychopaths because, um...reasons.

McBain to base: Under attack by Commie Nazis!