Did Aileen Wuornos deserve to be executed?

[Toke]

Another volunteer at the skagen music festival worked as a therapist at some child detention/special school.
The objective was to teach kids with no moral/emotional compass how to behave among other humans by rote.

 

[quadraginta]

Another volunteer at the skagen music festival worked as a therapist at some child detention/special school.
The objective was to teach kids with no moral/emotional compass how to behave among other humans by rote.

Exactly.

The possibility that we all do the same, just earlier and with more success, does raise its ugly head.

That is probably a topic for a separate thread, though.

 

[Toke]

Exactly.

The possibility that we all do the same, just earlier and with more success, does raise its ugly head.

That is probably a topic for a separate thread, though.

You are very evil.
Or just realistic

 

[quadraginta]

You are very evil.
Or just realistic

I've been accused of both.

 

[Toke]

I've been accused of both.

That is something to be proud of.

 

[JJM 777]

Had she been raised decently I doubt she would have turned to crime.

Uhh, hehh... Where does any crime anywhere in the world come from, if humans are inherently so good?

I think that the best punishment for persons who have
- intentionally and
- without obvious moral justification (such as self-defence)
attempted to take life from another person, is sending them to a hospital where doctors will give their organs to sick people who would otherwise die.

A most useful punishment, which takes life from those who don't deserve to live any more, and gives life to many who are facing a premature and undeserved death of medical reasons.

Whether the person committing the said crime was insane/drunk or not, makes no difference to me. Also whether the attempted crime succeeded or not, makes no difference to me.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

No, I'm arguing in favor of the death penalty because exile is impractical and inhuman monsters are more trouble than they're worth, alive.

What's the difference between what you said and what I said? Either way it boils down to deciding that it's easier to kill them than to keep them alive, except that you're trying to hide the connection between "easier" and "cheaper".

The problem with that argument, as you probably know, is that it's just factually false. It's cheaper (and hence easier in the only important sense) to keep someone locked up for life than it is to execute them.

 

[JJM 777]

It's cheaper (and hence easier in the only important sense) to keep someone locked up for life than it is to execute them.

Executing someone in military style costs a few dollars.

Keeping someone locked up for 50 years costs:
- 24 h surveillance
- housing, heating
- food
- health services
- Internet connection
- computer, television, phone
- I guess they get some pocket money too

Keeping someone in prison for life costs a heck of much money.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Executing someone in military style costs a few dollars.

Maybe where you live. In the USA, it costs much more than keeping them in prison.

Keeping someone locked up for 50 years costs:
- 24 h surveillance
- housing, heating
- food
- health services
- Internet connection
- computer, television, phone
- I guess they get some pocket money too

Keeping someone in prison for life costs a heck of much money.

Yup. It's still cheaper than killing them, thanks to a pesky thing called due process.

 

[JJM 777]

So it's not death penalty that is expensive and difficult, it is this "due process" what is expensive and difficult.

 

[ponderingturtle]

So it's not death penalty that is expensive and difficult, it is this "due process" what is expensive and difficult.

True vigilante justice is so much cheaper than the rule of law.

All we need to do is not care if the person did it or not and it becomes such a cheap way of getting rid of undesirables.

 

[applecorped]

yes

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

So it's not death penalty that is expensive and difficult, it is this "due process" what is expensive and difficult.

Yes. If you were happy to have one without the other you could do it very cheaply indeed.

 

[I Ratant]

So ... does anyone here think that Joe Namath deserved to be picked as MVP for the 1969 Super Bowl even though he never threw a touchdown pass for the entire game?

I mean, as long as we're dissecting a flogged-dead horse in this thread, we may as well bring in a broken-down old mule or two...

.
And Pete Rose deserves to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame because he -played the game- better than anyone else!

 

[JJM 777]

After a fair trial, where the person has been found...
- not guilty, or
- probably guilty, or
- certainly guilty without any scientific doubt
... shooting dead the murderer, who was found to be certainly guilty, is much cheaper than giving him/her a free endless holiday in a comfortable state hotel.

 

[Cainkane1]

So it's not death penalty that is expensive and difficult, it is this "due process" what is expensive and difficult.

Yes. Keeping a prisoner alive in the USA is less expensive than killing them. When it comes to the death penalty I have mixed feelings. The BTK killer should be executed in my opinion because some of his victims were children which including an eleven year old girl who was hung naked and was begging for her life.

However he got life for killing I believe ten or eleven people. Kansas had no death penalty at the time his crimes were committed. Dennis Rader is in protective custody for the rest of his life. This means he has to stay in a small cell and perhaps this measure of justice is sufficient. He has TV and books to read. He has letters and magazines. Is this enough punishment?

 

[Fishstick]

After a fair trial, where the person has been found...
- not guilty, or
- probably guilty, or
- certainly guilty without any scientific doubt
... shooting dead the murderer, who was found to be certainly guilty, is much cheaper than giving him/her a free endless holiday in a comfortable state hotel.

I doubt many prisoners share your idea of a holiday in a comfortable hotel. What happened to rehabilitation? Is everything simply about punishment and revenge now?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

After a fair trial, where the person has been found...
- not guilty, or
- probably guilty, or
- certainly guilty without any scientific doubt
... shooting dead the murderer, who was found to be certainly guilty, is much cheaper than giving him/her a free endless holiday in a comfortable state hotel.

Well, yes. By the same token it might be cheaper to drive a Ferrari than to get a single trip in a taxi, if you only start counting the cost once you've already paid off the Ferrari.

 

[JJM 777]

The trial costs the same in any case, no matter what the punishment will be. So your taxi / Ferrari allegory seems a bit hmmm well I didn't get the point, if there was one.

What happened to rehabilitation? Is everything simply about punishment and revenge now?

In case of murder, yes revenge is all what I ask for. Plus compensation from national insurance, which in turn can confiscate as much of the property of the murderer as is possible. But hey, we can sell the organs of the convict, so it will bring quite nice revenues...

In case of anything less than a murder, rehab is the goal, and a certain number of days imprisoned has little or sometimes nothing to do with rehab. I heard statistics that 75% of rapers do it again after their jail term ends. We know that majority of them will do it again, yet we let them out.

The only solution that I can imagine for violent persons, and other non-murderous criminals who prove to be highly rehab-resistant, would be a "Forbidden City". Yep a city or town with all the usual life, except no children or teens under 21 anywhere. Those inside can live a relatively normal life, except for the occasional trouble caused by the un-rehabbed neighbours.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

The trial costs the same in any case, no matter what the punishment will be. So your taxi / Ferrari allegory seems a bit hmmm well I didn't get the point, if there was one.

This is perhaps an area you should do some reading about, since it's clear you've got some serious misunderstandings. The total cost of the trial and appeals in a death penalty case is much greater than that in a case with a lesser penalty, since the incentives to pursue every possible avenue of appeal are infinitely greater and there are always defence lawyers willing to do the work for free for ideological reasons.

In case of anything less than a murder, rehab is the goal, and a certain number of days imprisoned has little or sometimes nothing to do with rehab. I heard statistics that 75% of rapers do it again after their jail term ends. We know that majority of them will do it again, yet we let them out.

Absolute nonsense.

The recidivism rate for sex offenders within three years of release is 2.5% to 5% in the USA and UK.

The only solution that I can imagine for violent persons, and other non-murderous criminals who prove to be highly rehab-resistant, would be a "Forbidden City". Yep a city or town with all the usual life, except no children or teens under 21 anywhere. Those inside can live a relatively normal life, except for the occasional trouble caused by the un-rehabbed neighbours.

There's a popular sentiment that everyone is entitled to an opinion. I differ: I hold that everyone is entitled to an informed opinion.