DHS Preparing For Civil War In The US?

[Horatius]

The Tea-Tards in Congress are getting all worked up over this.

Tee Hee Hee

http://marketdailynews.com/2013/03/22/senator-rand-paul-to-filibuster-over-big-sis-arms-build-up/


http://marketdailynews.com/2013/03/22/federal-government-cover-up-of-ammunition-buys-implodes/

Despite over a dozen members of Congress demanding an explanation as to why the agency has purchased enough ammunition to wage a 20 year-plus war, answers have not been forthcoming, with the only response arriving in the form of a glib statement made by a DHS official, Peggy Dixon, who blithely claimed that the bullets were bought in bulk to save money and that they were for training purposes only.

Kansas Congressman Timothy Huelscamp said earlier this week that threats should be made to withdraw funding from the DHS if it didn’t explain why it was purchasing so many bullets, remarking, “They have no answer for that question. They refuse to answer to answer that.”

- New Jersey Congressman Leonard Lance said last Friday that, “Congress has a responsibility to ask Secretary Napolitano as to exactly why these purchases have occurred,” signaling his intention to get answers.

- Californian Congressman Doug LaMalfa and 14 of his House colleagues have written a letter to the Department of Homeland Security asking if the purchases are, “being conducted in a manner that strategically denies the American people access to ammunition.

Despite numerous members of Congress making inquiries as to the reason behind the bullet buys, the mainstream and leftist media have attempted to ridicule the entire issue as a conspiracy theory, with Atlantic Wire even suggesting that the story had its origins in a debunked email, a report that completely failed to even mention the admitted fact that the DHS had purchased around 2 billion bullets.

Given that the DHS obviously thinks it can ignore sitting members of Congress, Infowars calls on Rand Paul to stage another filibuster or at least ask some hard questions and demand answers about why the agency is apparently trying to hide what seems to many observers to represent a domestic arms build-up in preparation for civil unrest.

That's just about a perfect example of "JAQing off", and then completely ignoring the answer, that was provided almost immediately.

And they wonder why we laugh at them. I'm off to Stundie this whole lot.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Some Tea Party Congressman from Utah jumps on the bandwagon

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/opi...cle_8d303e84-c38c-5a37-a413-71eca17f8546.html

 

[Alferd_Packer]

And then there is this gem from Tennessee

Ammo is tough to find in almost every popular caliber. Even reloading supplies are rarified. Gunbroker.com has listings of a single case of primers auctioning off at up to $100. Four months ago it was between $26-$31 per case off the shelf at Sportsman's Warehouse. Finding propellant, projectiles and cases are equally challenging.

Why have several U.S. legislators been stone-walled as to why the Department of Homeland Security has purchased 1.6 trillion rounds of ammo in the past year, hoarding it - stuck in a warehouse somewhere (a really big warehouse)? Is the DHS anticipating a massive uprising or invasion?

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/3/23/247312/Where-All-The-Ammo-Went---And-Response.aspx

LOL

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Check out the demographics of line up to buy ammo at this store:

http://newstalk1290.com/are-the-ammo-shortages-by-design/

And somehow this is the government's fault?

 

[Myron Proudfoot]

And then there is this gem from Tennessee



http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/3/23/247312/Where-All-The-Ammo-Went---And-Response.aspx

LOL

trillions?!? I heard they ordered an even bizillion rounds! Maybe even a Gizillion!

 

[jaydeehess]

10¹⁰⁰ rounds is what I heard.

 

[BStrong]

And then there is this gem from Tennessee



http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/3/23/247312/Where-All-The-Ammo-Went---And-Response.aspx

LOL

Man-o-manischewitz, that is one stupid individual.

 

[Kestrel]

This reminds me of the great rice shortage a couple years ago. Plenty of rice to go around, but once people started hoarding it disappeared from the shelves.

 

[Horatius]

Check out the demographics of line up to buy ammo at this store:

http://newstalk1290.com/are-the-ammo-shortages-by-design/

And somehow this is the government's fault?

And the really funny bit is, none of these idiots seem to realize that the government contracts are multi-year contracts; they're committing to buying bullets that haven't even be made yet. It's like they think there's a vast Raiders of the Lost Ark style warehouse somewhere with a Brazillion bullets squirreled away in it.


From 2009:

At points during the past year, bullets have been selling faster than factories could make them.

Gun owners have bought about 12 billion rounds of ammunition in the past year, industry officials estimate. That's up from 7 billion to 10 billion in a normal year.

The run started, observers say, as people heeded warnings from the gun-rights lobby that a

new Democratic administration would make bullets more expensive or harder to get. Now that the shortage is starting to ease, gun-control groups are voicing their own dark worries about stockpiled ammunition.

In between, in the 12 months since last October, gun shops sold enough bullets to give every American 38 of them.

Yeah, it's the Government causing the shortages. Riiiiight.

 

[Clayton Moore]

And then there are the true idiots who think that somehow the government suddenly buying up ammunition from the private sector is business as usual.

 

[LSSBB]

And then there are the true idiots who think that somehow the government suddenly buying up ammunition from the private sector is business as usual.

Suddenly? When has the US government NOT been buying up ammo from the private sector?

 

[squealpiggy]

When did this figure leap from 450 million to 1.6 billion to now 16 billion rounds?

Edit for linky

I guess they're saying 1.6 billion per year.

Made up?

 

[squealpiggy]

So I followed the links.

CNS begate Infowars. Infowars begat Infowars (again). Infowars begat Breitbart. Breitbart begat WingNutDaily. WingNutDaily begate an explanation as to why a large ammo purchase was made by the tiny Social Security agency.

The only source I could find for the 1.6 billion (or 2 billion) rounds of ammunition a year was a reference to radio host Mark Levin and a google search revealed his source to be this article which provides the assertion "According to one estimate, just since last spring DHS has stockpiled more than 1.6 billion bullets..."

The "one estimate" is not linked to, though the author does provide a link to "some experts" when estimating the annual number of bullets fired in the Iraq War. Unfortunately that link... it goes back to Infowars.

It appears that the higher numbers are invented.

 

[Horatius]

And the really funny bit is, none of these idiots seem to realize that the government contracts are multi-year contracts;

And then there are the true idiots who think that somehow the government suddenly buying up ammunition from the private sector is business as usual.

And the fact that it's just a renewal of a contract going back over a decade, and it's not even the first or only contract for ammunition signed by DHS.

So, we can add "Suddenly" to the list of words that CM clearly doesn't understand. And "business as usual" as well, although that's actually a phrase....

 

[Alferd_Packer]

It appears that the higher numbers are invented.

The numbers are based on flawed math, double counting, and a poor understanding of how Idefinite Delivery, Indefinite Quantity (IDOQ) contracts work.

I am not an expert, but the concepts are simple enough to grasp.

Let's say you run a training facility with multiple gun ranges that burns through about 3 million rounds a year in a particular caliber. Lets also say you want to lock in prices for that particular ammo for the next five years.

You put out a bid request asking for unit prices based on the anticipated purchase of 3 million rounds the first year, 3.1 million rounds the second year, 3.2 the third, and so on for a total of 16 million over five years.

Then you set a minimum and a maximum for the contract the minimum is easy, one unit case of a thousand rounds. Setting the maximum is trickier. You want it to be high enough so that there is no possibility that it will be exceeded during the life of the contract you don't want to max out in the third year and have to issue a change order or go through a new bid process that can take up to three months to complete.

Based on some personal experience, and from reading the POs on line, it would seem that the DHS contracting Officers set the maximum at between three and just over five times the actual anticipated purchase.

So for our theoretical purchase above, let's say that the CO sets the maximum at 18 million rounds per year, or 90 million over five years.

Now let's say you are a manufacturer who wins this contract. You want to issue a press release about it. Do you say "we were awarded a contract for the probable sale of 16 milllion rounds over five years?" Or do you say "we were awarded a contract with a potential maximum sale of 90 million rounds over five yesrs?"

 

[A'isha]

And then there are the true idiots who think that somehow the government suddenly buying up ammunition from the private sector is business as usual.

It's not "suddenly", and it is business as usual.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

It's not "suddenly", and it is business as usual.

Don't be too hard on Clayton, it's not as if there are any major ammunition manufacturers out there with the word "Federal" as part of their name.


Oh, wait. . .

 

[A'isha]

Back in November, Senator Tom Coburn asked the Department of Homeland Security about all these bullet purchases.

This was their answer.

Ammunition purchases made by the US have gone down over the last three fiscal years - DHS bought 148,314,825 rounds in FY 2010, 108,664,054 in FY 2011, and 103,178,200 in FY 2012.

And, exactly as has been pointed out here, the vast majority of those bullets have been used for training purposes. In FY 2010, DHS used 109,439,239 rounds in training and 25,153,379 "operationally", for a total of 134,592,618 rounds used. In FY 2011, DHS used 87,211,770 rounds in training and 23,519,077 rounds "operationally", for a total of 110,730,847 rounds used. In FY 2012, DHS used 88,339,934 rounds in training and 27,887,847 rounds "operationally", for a total of 116,227,781 rounds used.

A five-year contract for the purchase of 450 million rounds works out to about 90 million rounds per year, which is far fewer rounds than DHS purchased or even used during each of the last three years.

Why is this scary to you again, Clayton?

 

[jaydeehess]

And then there are the true idiots who think that somehow the government suddenly buying up ammunition from the private sector is business as usual.

Well, the US gov't does not have small arms ammo factory of its own so,,,,,,,, where do you think they have been getting them all along, you know, usual business?

I see that you have ignored the fact that the number keep going up way above the known contract amount. Its almost as if some true idiots are playing games with the truth.

You also ignored the math done to show that this is simply not unusual for practise.

So you are wrong on "suddenly", wrong on the idea that they are buying more than usual, wrong that is is more than is needed for practise.

So it seems that as far as true idiots go, you are providing yourself as a prime example, again, business as usual.

 

[Border Reiver]

And then there are the true idiots who think that somehow the government suddenly buying up ammunition from the private sector is business as usual.

a. You've been shown that this isn't sudden, or all that large;
b. With the lack of government owned ammunition or weapons factories - where else can they purchase arms and ammunition?