Destroyed Atlantis = Menorah

[King of the Americas]

On the contrary. I asked a question, which apparently you cannot answer.

I expected a list of the reliable sources of historical knowledge that Plato had access to. His habits and character might be relevant regarding how accurately he might have conveyed the information he received from those sources, but it all depends upon the sources first.

Is your Library of Alexandria card up to date?

 

[Belz...]

You're not a historian, and you are saying what evidence "must" be disregarded???

Objection- Beyond the Scope of the Witness.

Are you an historian? If not, then by your own standards you cannot participate in this discussion.

Careful what you wish for.

I'm saying you aren't qualified to disqualify Plato.

Plato wasn't an historian, either.

Stop playing games.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

To reiterate:
This is the carving that OP claims is both three concentric circles, and the Jewish menorah (and therefore Atlantis for some reason):

 

[King of the Americas]

You know how another poster pointed out your hypocrisy when applying standards? This is another example.



I told you not to play games. We're not in a court, and a claim cannot be its own evidence.



Should I consider Star Wars evidence for Darth Vader?



That is pure BS. You just want the story to be true, and you'll use any argument, no matter how silly, to make it so.

I know this isn't court, but rules of evidence 'objectionable' behavior or conduct regarding witness testimony and 'literary evidence' are ethical bounds in which all should operate within a civil discussion.

You don't get to break with rules because you happen upon evidence you don't like or want to hear.

George Lucas is known for sci-fi, and has said openly, it is not real. Why are you associating the two. Why isn't THE apt comparison Homer's Troy?

 

[King of the Americas]

Are you an historian? If not, then by your own standards you cannot participate in this discussion.

Careful what you wish for.

Plato wasn't an historian, either.

Stop playing games.

You may add to the record, but you may not disqualify authenticated evidence.

Plato wrote to inform, instruct, and advocate. He did not do so to entertain. Were he to write of something purely non-existent, without sound reason and principle, he would have undermined his credibility.

You speak of one of the world's greatest thinkers as though he were a corner block loon.

Stop doing that.

 

[Agatha]

Will all participants kindly refresh their memories of their Membership Agreements, paying particular attention to rule 0 and rule 12.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Agatha

 

[Belz...]

I know this isn't court, but rules of evidence 'objectionable' behavior or conduct regarding witness testimony and 'literary evidence' are ethical bounds in which all should operate within a civil discussion.

The point you're avoiding is that you're engaging in sheer speculation yourself. You've decided that Atlantis existed despite the only mention of it was in a fictional discussion invented by Plato in order to construct a political treatise around, and you think the Jewish Menorah represents Atlantis because... it looks somewhat similar to half of what Plato described.

You are in no position to say that other posters are speculating when they mention the facts we actually know.

You don't get to break with rules because you happen upon evidence you don't like or want to hear.

Remind me when you actually provide some evidence for your claim.

George Lucas is known for sci-fi

So is James Cameron.

and has said openly, it is not real.

Citation, please. For all you know, Star Wars could be based on some information that Lucas came across that recounted ancient alien legends about the struggles of the Skywalkers and... look! Hieroglyphics of R2-D2 in an Egyptian tomb!

http://blog.tickets2you.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/RaidersWOS.jpg

Why isn't THE apt comparison Homer's Troy?

Because it doesn't help you either way. Troy was assumed to be historical for a long time and was part of Greek tradition. Atlantis shows up ONLY in Plato and only as part of a single, fictional narrative.

 

[King of the Americas]

To reiterate:
This is the carving that OP claims is both three concentric circles, and the Jewish menorah (and therefore Atlantis for some reason):

No.

I see this ONLY as "not a menorah"... Between Atlantis vs. menorah, I choose Atlantis, even with more rings.

Lamps or candle sticks don't work upside down.

 

[Belz...]

You may add to the record, but you may not disqualify authenticated evidence.

There is no authenticated evidence here, King.

Plato wrote to inform, instruct, and advocate. He did not do so to entertain.

You're addressing an argument I did not make. It's still fiction.

Were he to write of something purely non-existent, without sound reason and principle, he would have undermined his credibility.

Nonsense. He used a literary device to make a political point. There is nothing untoward about that. You are talking nonsense.

You speak of one of the world's greatest thinkers as though he were a corner block loon.

That is your interpretation, not mine, and it is incredibly misinformed. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

No.

I see this ONLY as "not a menorah"... Between Atlantis vs. menorah, I choose Atlantis, even with more rings.

Lamps or candle sticks don't work upside down.

You started this thread claiming the menorah was a symbol for Atlantis, and claimed this carving from Cameron's documentary was evidence.
Later you said:

It's the number of concentric circles...
The Cup and ring marks you posted look very dissimilar to the 3 concentric rings of Atlantis...

But now the menorah connection is gone, and the number of rings doesn't matter anymore?
Basically negating everything you claimed before.

Your turn to support your claims, or retract them.

 

[Myriad]

You may add to the record, but you may not disqualify authenticated evidence.

Plato wrote to inform, instruct, and advocate. He did not do so to entertain. Were he to write of something purely non-existent, without sound reason and principle, he would have undermined his credibility.

Plato wrote of a philosophy in which the material world that we perceive with our senses is less real than an invisible intangible world of thoughts and thought forms.

Plato wrote about this philosophy primarily through dialogues most of which, as far as anyone can tell, did not take place and could not possibly have been heard first-hand by Plato if they did.

He claimed the philosophical ideas he wrote about originated from the muses. You know, the nine Greek goddesses that fly around giving people ideas.

Writing about things that are purely nonexistent (in the mere material world, at least) is what Plato is famous for. Which is just as well, because (like everyone in his time) he knew bugger all about how anything in the material world actually works.

Still, despite all that he might have had access to reliable sources of historical information about Atlantis which he reported in one of his otherwise fictional dialogues. What were those sources, again?

 

[GT/CS]

-Find an inscription of a well known religious symbol
-Claim it's a map of half of Atlantis
-People tell you the thing that looks like a lamp and is only ever described as a literal or metaphorical lamp probably represents a lamp.
-Claim the absence of pre-judaic providence and the fact that every source we have contradicts you is proof the jews forgot it was from Atlantis, so it must have been from Atlantis.

I can't tell whether you're so engrossed by a need to be in on sooper seekrit ancient lore that you can't see you're imagining things, or if you're just being disingenuous.

Bingo!!

 

[King of the Americas]

You started this thread claiming the menorah was a symbol for Atlantis, and claimed this carving from Cameron's documentary was evidence.
Later you said:


But now the menorah connection is gone, and the number of rings doesn't matter anymore?
Basically negating everything you claimed before.

Your turn to support your claims, or retract them.

That's not a proper application of my stance...

In regards to 'this symbol' I think ONLY that this is not a lamp or candle holder. Comparatively speaking, it looks more like Atlantis than a menorah. Upside-downness disqualifies it as a menorah. Maybe the relief featured the negative space as the rings?

 

[King of the Americas]

There is no authenticated evidence here, King.

You are not qualified to disqualify Plato.

 

[King of the Americas]

Plato wrote of a philosophy in which the material world that we perceive with our senses is less real than an invisible intangible world of thoughts and thought forms.

Plato wrote about this philosophy primarily through dialogues most of which, as far as anyone can tell, did not take place and could not possibly have been heard first-hand by Plato if they did.

He claimed the philosophical ideas he wrote about originated from the muses. You know, the nine Greek goddesses that fly around giving people ideas.

Writing about things that are purely nonexistent (in the mere material world, at least) is what Plato is famous for. Which is just as well, because (like everyone in his time) he knew bugger all about how anything in the material world actually works.

Still, despite all that he might have had access to reliable sources of historical information about Atlantis which he reported in one of his otherwise fictional dialogues. What were those sources, again?

"Successes."

Plato wrote from that which he witness and have evidence of, not "from muses" literally. Sounds like a marketing ploy. He wrote to preserve, inform, and most importantly 'teach'... It would have undermined his authority to make stuff up with no basis in reality.

I posted a link to a Phd's paper. You clearly didn't read that either.

 

[Craig4]

Yes, but there was evidence from which to make this claim. It was not 'baseless.'



You're pettifogging the issue here. I am saying herein, that the lack of evidence as to what this lamp/menorah actually represents is evidence "that it was adopted." Not where or why it was adopted from. We don't know why the biblical authority said build this like this, nor what "pattern" he is referring to.



Unmentioned...? Except for Plato and where ever he received his information from...?



What do they (Jewish people) claim it represents? I've found conflicting theories...

Do any Jewish sources relate it to Atlantis? Is there any mention of the menorah and Atlantis by an original source in the same sentence?

 

[Craig4]

"Successes."

Plato wrote from that which he witness and have evidence of, not "from muses" literally. Sounds like a marketing ploy. He wrote to preserve, inform, and most importantly 'teach'... It would have undermined his authority to make stuff up with no basis in reality.

I posted a link to a Phd's paper. You clearly didn't read that either.

So "The Cave" wasn't an allegory?

 

[Craig4]

I know this isn't court, but rules of evidence 'objectionable' behavior or conduct regarding witness testimony and 'literary evidence' are ethical bounds in which all should operate within a civil discussion.

You don't get to break with rules because you happen upon evidence you don't like or want to hear.

George Lucas is known for sci-fi, and has said openly, it is not real. Why are you associating the two. Why isn't THE apt comparison Homer's Troy?

I'm sorry, I missed where you presented evidence to relate the menorah to Atlantis. Kindly show that please.

 

[Craig4]

You may add to the record, but you may not disqualify authenticated evidence.

Plato wrote to inform, instruct, and advocate. He did not do so to entertain. Were he to write of something purely non-existent, without sound reason and principle, he would have undermined his credibility.

You speak of one of the world's greatest thinkers as though he were a corner block loon.

Stop doing that.

Yeah, so I take it you found his cave.

 

[King of the Americas]

That's not a proper application of my stance...

In regards to 'this symbol' I think ONLY that this is not a lamp or candle holder. Comparatively speaking, it looks more like Atlantis than a menorah. Upside-downness disqualifies it as a menorah. Maybe the relief featured the negative space as the rings?

The symbol could represent the intersection of 'dis-knowledge'...

One traveler goes to a site containing concentric circles possibly Atlantis, goes back home carves a similar symbol on or in a mount, tells others this thing is cool, build it this is what it looks like, and those who receive it, interpret it as "a lamp"...let's add candles!