Destroyed Atlantis = Menorah

[abaddon]

So we have actual Menorah carvings.

We also have the fact that Ireland is in the atlantic as per Plato.

We also have the fact that Ireland was once part of a larger land mass until flooded some 14,000 years ago as per Plato.

We also have the fact that Ireland is in navigable distance of Gibraltar in that period as per Plato.

Would you like to know more?

 

[Porpoise of Life]

ALLOW ME TO APOLOGISE.

abaddon, has a theory AND he has evidence!

Please, do point to it. REALLY sorry I missed it.

(looking now)...

(still looking)...

(enlarged my screen font to make sure it wasn't in fine-print somewhere at the bottom)...

(still looking)...

Nope.

No alternative theory, no evidence.

You sir, are mistaken.

The null hypothesis is that the Jews invented it, because the first record we have of a menorah is from the Jews. No menorah-like objects or symbols can be found in any cultures the Israelites came into contact with.

If you want to claim there's a link to Spain and to Atlantis, it's up to you to provide evidence.

But instead of explaining why your theory makes sense, you are asking for another theory AND evidence (which you yourself won't provide)
We present another hypothesis: It's something the Jews invented, because all the evidence points to that.
But you won't accept that as an alternative, because you claim the menora MUST have been adopted from somewhere else. A claim you won't support.

 

[Belz...]

ALLOW ME TO APOLOGISE.

abaddon, has a theory AND he has evidence!

Please, do point to it. REALLY sorry I missed it.

(looking now)...

(still looking)...

(enlarged my screen font to make sure it wasn't in fine-print somewhere at the bottom)...

(still looking)...

Nope.

No alternative theory, no evidence.

You sir, are mistaken.

How rude. You come here with nonsense and get flustered when it doesn't pass muster here, and now have nothing but personalisation and snark.

Pathetic.

 

[King of the Americas]

The null hypothesis is that the Jews invented it, because the first record we have of a menorah is from the Jews. No menorah-like objects or symbols can be found in any cultures the Israelites came into contact with.

...

So they invented it, out of thin air?

Chose "7" lamps on a single stand...made of one piece of gold, just because...?

Then augmented it because the original wasn't cool enough...?

---

I can wear a pay of Nikes having never came into contact with America, supposing I live in Africa. My little brother could draw the swoosh, because he saw me wearing the shoes.

What kind of 'connection' did the Nazi's have with Buddhism'?

 

[King of the Americas]

How rude. You come here with nonsense and get flustered when it doesn't pass muster here, and now have nothing but personalisation and snark.

Pathetic.

^Note the lack of evidence promised?^

 

[Porpoise of Life]

So we have actual Menorah carvings.

We also have the fact that Ireland is in the atlantic as per Plato.

We also have the fact that Ireland was once part of a larger land mass until flooded some 14,000 years ago as per Plato.

We also have the fact that Ireland is in navigable distance of Gibraltar in that period as per Plato.

Would you like to know more?

And the Tuatha de Danann, the gods / wave of invaders that preceded the Gaels were said to have arrived from four magical island cities where they learned crafts that surpassed those of mere mortals.

It's clear that we have to look far to the north of Spain for the real Atlantis

 

[Belz...]

So they invented it, out of thin air?

The choice isn't between "thin air" and "Atlantis".

Read for comprehension: it doesn't matter if anyone here is providing you with an alternative. What matters is that YOUR explanation is unproven and silly.

 

[fagin]

Perhaps the Israelites saw it on the internets.

 

[abaddon]

^Note the lack of evidence promised?^

Please address the evidence I provided. You have now twice ignored it.

 

[Belz...]

^Note the lack of evidence promised?^

Ah, and now you're downright lying. Your request does not constitute a commitment by me. The thread is about you trying to make your case, and you have failed. That's all there is to it.

 

[King of the Americas]

So we have actual Menorah carvings.

We also have the fact that Ireland is in the atlantic as per Plato.

We also have the fact that Ireland was once part of a larger land mass until flooded some 14,000 years ago as per Plato.

We also have the fact that Ireland is in navigable distance of Gibraltar in that period as per Plato.

Would you like to know more?

Is this what I 'missed'...?

Your theory is that Ireland is Atlantis?

THAT's your alternative theory to "off the Spanish coast"...?

So, are you saying the the symbol came from the a more northerly situated Atlantis?

Well, maybe...seems like a stretch, but it's your theory, so let's see it fully fleshed out?

Do you believe Exodus was talking about an Irish mount?

 

[abaddon]

And the Tuatha de Danann, the gods / wave of invaders that preceded the Gaels were said to have arrived from four magical island cities where they learned crafts that surpassed those of mere mortals.

It's clear that we have to look far to the north of Spain for the real Atlantis

Not to mention that the Fir Bolg actually migrated to Greece and likely passed on their knowledge of Atlantis to Plato.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It was evidence, so probably, yeah.

Check Exodus...I've been quoting God's direction to make it after a "pattern" in or on some mount for about 14 pages...

Oh. So nothing about copying a symbol already used by some other culture.

 

[SOdhner]

So they invented it, out of thin air?

It doesn't matter. Maybe? Maybe not? Even if we happily concede for the sake of argument that they got the inspiration for it from somewhere else, you've given us NO EVIDENCE to support this supposed connection to Atlantis.

The "evidence" you've presented has not included anything relevant to a link between Atlantis and the menorah.

1. You've talked about Plato, and some ruins off the coast of Spain. This part of the conversation is relevant to whether or not Atlantis exists at all, but it is not evidence that links Atlantis to the Jewish people.

2. You've talked about how symbols in general and the menorah in specific may have changed over time. This part of the conversation is relevant to establishing that it is possible the menorah could have been based on some other symbol, but it is not evidence that links Atlantis to the Jewish people.

3. You've talked about some carvings and symbols. Not only are these symbols not evidence that links Atlantis to the Jewish people, you haven't even linked the symbols to either of those things individually.

So, again, I'm willing to set aside the stuff about Atlantis existing and I'm willing to concede that the menorah could have been taken from some other source. If you will actually engage with me on providing evidence that links the menorah to Atlantis I will totally concede your premise (that Atlantis existed and was in or near what is now Spain).

So far you haven't done this. Acting like you've given evidence linking the menorah to Atlantis won't work, we've all read this thread. If you have anything, please present it now.

You just keep insisting it's out there, but for some reason you can't actually produce it. Strange! What about this supposed evidence is so hard for you to type out? Go ahead, you can even start with a simple summary.

I'm guessing you can't, though, because it doesn't exist. You'll just end up rehashing points #1 and #2 in my quote above, even though those aren't evidence that in any way links the menorah with the Jewish people.

We're all waiting, but at this point I don't think anyone is holding their breath.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Is this what I 'missed'...?

Your theory is that Ireland is Atlantis?

THAT's your alternative theory to "off the Spanish coast"...?

So, are you saying the the symbol came from the a more northerly situated Atlantis?

Well, maybe...seems like a stretch, but it's your theory, so let's see it fully fleshed out?

Do you believe Exodus was talking about an Irish mount?

And now you're asking the kind of questions you would not answer about your own theory. How dishonest.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So they invented it, out of thin air?

Someone invented it. Why not them?

 

[Pixel42]

Priest one: we need some new lamps for the temple, the current ones aren't very good

Priest two: let's make some that look suitably impressive, rather than just having the same ones everyone else uses. After all, this is The Temple

Priest one: Good idea. We could make them of gold, for example.

Priest two: Oh, obviously gold, yes, but they also need to be bigger than normal lamps. Maybe more than one lamp holder?

Priest one: How about 7? One for every day of the week?

Priest two: That's good. And arranged in a nice pattern, like a tree or a growing plant, say

Priest one: But if they're round like a tree we won't be able to strand them on ledges, shelves and window sills

Priest two: Good point. Let's put them all in a row, then, with the stand under the central one so they're nice and stable

Priest one: Done. I'll instruct the lamp maker

There you go. An alternative explanation.

 

[abaddon]

Is this what I 'missed'...?

Your theory is that Ireland is Atlantis?

THAT's your alternative theory to "off the Spanish coast"...?

So, are you saying the the symbol came from the a more northerly situated Atlantis?

Well, maybe...seems like a stretch, but it's your theory, so let's see it fully fleshed out?

Do you believe Exodus was talking about an Irish mount?

Yup. Newgrange, where you will find many Menorah carvings as you would know if you simply looked at the photograph I provided to you.

Not to mention that those peoples, the Fir Bolg, actually migrated to Greece where we find Plato lapping up those tales of far off lands.

As for Exodus, it is your claim that the Jews simply inherited an earlier tradition. I have evidence for that coming from Atlantis to the Fir Bolg to the Jews via Plato. Actual evidence in the carvings, migrations and culture.

You, on the other hand, have nothing.

 

[King of the Americas]

Priest one: we need some new lamps for the temple, the current ones aren't very good

Priest two: let's make some that look suitably impressive, rather than just having the same ones everyone else uses. After all, this is The Temple

Priest one: Good idea. We could make them of gold, for example.

Priest two: Oh, obviously gold, yes, but they also need to be bigger than normal lamps. Maybe more than one lamp holder?

Priest one: How about 7? One for every day of the week?

...

Days of the week then...

NOT the original seven churches, the days that lamp burned, AND it was okay to just change the number.

OR

That's not what happened.

 

[King of the Americas]

The choice isn't between "thin air" and "Atlantis".

Read for comprehension: it doesn't matter if anyone here is providing you with an alternative. What matters is that YOUR explanation is unproven and silly.

abaddon has an interesting theory...a more northerly Atlantis. But an Atlantis nonetheless.